±«Óãtv

Maybe the film studio bigwigs didn't want to admit that they've decided to rescind our rights to backup Blu-Ray/HD-DVD titles that was own?

Would surprise me in the slightest. Film companies and the like are SO paranoid these days I wouldn't raise an eyebrow if it were uncovered that the so called "managed copying" was binned do to fears of piracy.

These has to be some line drawn in the virtual sand where our rights begin and the power of the money-hungry corps end.

Perhaps as consumers we should be a little more circumspect about the technology and not buy Blu-Ray or HD-DVD until the product actually meets our (the customers) requirements.

We wouldn't accept a portable radio that only worked in one room in the house. We want our products to fit in with our lifestyle.

Only by the consumer refusing to buy the product until it does what we want will we ever get the money obsessed executives to change their stance.

I guess now that they won't be allowing managed copying there will be a lot more 'unmanaged' copying. They can't seriously expect their copy protection to stop anybody.

I'm not sure if the ±«Óãtv reported it, but if AACS has already been "broken" on HD discs (see url) then it won't be long until Blu-ray is "cracked" aswell.

A solution will always be provided for those who wish to break the law as necessity, is and will always be the mother of invention.

Copied discs obviously costs film companies many millions of dollars a year, in lost revenue.
If they want to use the protection system on the discs, to help reduce this loss, then they should give the consumer extra rights in return - such as, at least a 10yr guarantee on the disc, should it ever become too scratched to work, during that time.

Jeff a lot of companies will give you a new disc if you send the old scratched one to them, I've got several playstation DVD and CD replaced buy simply phoning the companies up, however most people can't be (insert expletive) to do this.

Copying discs? Well, that should be the least of our concerns when talking about HD-DVD and BD.

How about "system renewability", which allows MPAA to render your legally purchased expensive new players be disabled remotely without warning, either online or by distributing the revocation instructions on the next disc you legally purchase and attempt to play? Or cancel your ability to play a disc you legally bought, perhaps to force you to buy a new super-duper directors recut platinum ultimate edition?

Would you like the maker of your refrigerator to be able to turn it off anytime he thinks you are buying tomatoes not from his favourite supermarket anymore, no?

Then why should we accept the blatant violation of our rights by the entertainment industry?

Please stop me if I'm being silly, but I have an idea that would make this whole 'copy protection' argument redundant.

'Sell your disks at a reasonable price and stop profitering from your customers. Oh, and also stop treating us like idiots.'

(The latter comment goes out to Sony - root kit anyone? Or how about a PSP from Hong Kong?'

So the next time you pay £19 for a DVD just remember who the pirates are.

I know I do.

red1hols seems to understand things differently from me.
o.k. we SHOULDN'T have to "accept a portable radio that only worked in one room in the house", but very shortly I, and many others, will have a number of television sets that only work in the one room of the house that has the set-top box installed.
Why should portable radios and DVDs be any different?

The concept of "accept" has now changed to one of "take it or leave it", if you take it then you accept it, if you leave it then you do without; the new blue-ray things are no different in that respect from any other multi-national commercial rip-off.

"reasonable"? "rights"? Don't make us laugh, it isn't funny.

I'm holding off buying any new media player, including Blu-ray or HDDVD, until somebody convinces me that any DRM systems they use have been adequately circumvented to allow me to use the underlying technology how it claims to work on the box. DRM is a blunt tool, usually badly implemented by media companies who treat their customers as very dumb cash cows. The 'Plays for Sure' vs Zune troubles and the Sony rootkit fiasco are only two recent examples. I used to be an early adopter for gadgets but DRM stupidity by Apple, Sony, Microsoft and others has made me extremely wary nowadays.

Sorry avidtechfan, neither HDDVD nor BluRay which both use the AACS protection system have been "cracked". The latest report doing the internet rounds is that someone managed to extract keys from the PowerDVD application which enables them to decrypt a HDDVD as a player would normally using the standard AACS specifications. We're still some way from copied HDDVDs or BluRay disks.

Nevertheless the film and recording industries are stomping all over our rights as consumers to make legitimate backups of our legally purchased content.

After blu-ray/hd becomes mainstream, its only a matter of time before the copy protection is cracked. If the film industry gave us an alternative to cracked protection then there would be less demand for these illegal methods.

I have both HD-DVD and Blu Ray players, and I couldn't care less about managed copies. In the long term it may be an issue, but it certainly isn't at the moment.

I have precisely one 42" HDTV, one player for Blu Ray movies, and only one set of eyes. I certainly don't have the 30gb of hard drive space it would take to back up ONE disc, nor any Blu Ray burners to make the managed copy useful outside my home.

I don't fancy re-encoding these massive movie files into anything a portable player could play- the resolution would be no better than a DVD (or offical download) and the process would literally take days.

At the moment, I don't think it's even feasible to implement useful managed copy policies. The hardware, storage and processing power needed for HD video are beyond anything 99% consumers currently have.

So let's stop spinning this into another 'movie studios are evil' blog post.

Here they go again. In an attempt to control their material they are going to control the media. We saw it with both CD and DVD formats. I refursed to buy any products in either format until i had my own burner and blank disc's. Its not the cost of the originals thats the problem, i prefer not to pirate, its the right to use your own eqpuiment and meida pusrchsed by yourself for your use in any way that you choose.

When will they ever learn.....

This whole DRM thing is just becoming more and more of a mess. As the studios get more and more harsh in their copy protection it just means that those that actually buy the real discs end up with an inferior product. Its crazy that due to stupid protection forcibly foised abon me my legally bought HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movie will fail to work, or play at a downscaled quality, on my legally bought HD-TV on my legally bought HD-DVD/Blu-Ray in my legally owned home! It seems these days that the only way to get high definition content that you can play on what you own without restrictions is to go down the market at get it from "honest" John's Movie stall.

Saying that your current computer hardware is not capable of handling HD content is a fairly short-sighted comment.

The 1TB desktop PC hard disk is shipping this quarter. 30GB of disk space will soon be treated in the same way we treat 30MB of disk space now. Processor performance can be looked at with the same considerations.

I do not consider this to be another rant against movie studios. Presumably you believe everyone who complains about movie studios is a just annoyed about not being able to download movies anymore?

The point is that as always, these overcomplex encryption systems cost a lot of money, which we, as consumers will end up paying for. Inevitably, the systems will be broken in a few months and all that cost and effort will have been wasted. Does this not strike you as pure idioicy?

I hope that when the ±«Óãtv comes to release its catalogue on HD it decides to use an open standard rather than a pointless encryption controlled by Hollywood interests.

I have a HD projector with no encrypted digital input which means I presently can't play HD-DVD or BluRay disks on it. I did know this when I bought it a while back (I use Linux anyway so there will never be a "legitimate" player available, just like there technically isn't for DVD) but there will be plenty of people with their "HD Ready" TV sets that will find the same and will be very annoyed.

I will only buy any HD disks (if at all) once they've been fully cracked. It seems HD-DVD is winning this race - poster 11 doesn't seem to realise that if you can play it outside of the controlled environment then you can copy it or watch it anywhere.

I don't download illegally, but as Matt says, I could get ripped HD films via the internet that work, whereas the legitimate ones don't. How short sighted is that?

Let's face it, no-one 'backs up' stuff for legal reasons. I don't know of a single person who does it, nor can think why you would. Looking after a disc means it can last many years... certainly long enough to be obsolete. Example: I fancied watching The Matrix the other day, and my original region 1 DVD worked fine, and that must be 6-7 years old by now.

'Normal' consumers don't care about DRM really- if you're on the level, everything works as it should. As I said in my previous comment, I have a HDTV, the appropriate players and BR/HD-DVD movies, and it all works flawlessly.

Why do studios bother with DRM if it's cracked so easily? Because they have to. Why bother locking your front door in the morning when someone can still very easily break in through a window? Because not taking any action only invites more trouble. Movies can take up to $200m to produce, so forgive them for not wanting you to making 'legitimate backups' to give to you friends for free.

As for the person who is crying over his HD projector not having the appropriate copy-protected inputs- there are players out right now that will send the HD movies over component, which would work absolutely fine. A litte research before spending around £1,000 also helps.

Yes, 30gb won't be much storage for long, but how many 'normal' consumers will buy a 1tb homestation? Normal consumers are ultimately the biggest market, and 30gb will be too much for some time to come.

People need to get off their high horses about DRM, or admit they want to copy the occasional movie. It's silly moaning about it now, when Blu Ray and HD-DVD are a reality now, and a real fantastic experience if you're a movie lover. Waiting for it to be cheaper, or copyable, or cracked is pointless when you could be run over by a bus tomrrow. Either buy into it, or don't- just don't moan about it like it's your god given right to watch, rip and copy any movie you want.

@Craig: You say "People need to get off their high horses about DRM, or admit they want to copy the occasional movie."

Your enthusiasm for the content protection is exemplary but may I remind you that DRM was never about copy protection. DRM lets the copyright owner decide how and when and on what device I may or may not watch his precious content. Moreover, it allows the same copyright holder to pull the plug on me being able to watch the content AFTER he's sold it to me and got my money.

A Disney executive once was quoted as saying - "if the customer even becomes aware that there is a DRM - we've failed." You will have hard time explaining to me that he was talking about copying and piracy.

You used the house door for your example - do you also send the keys to your house to the police, so that they could enter more easily if they suspect you of anything? No? Why not - you have nothing to hide, so you have nothing to fear, right?

Just because you personally have not yet run into trouble with DRMs does not mean they're benign or harmless. As any disease, DRMs will have an incubation period.

DRMs are at once both product and tool of abuse of market power. It is in the public interest to rein in the out-of-control monopolies weilding DRMs before it's too late.

Craig wrote: "30gb will be too much for some time to come."

Surely, you mean 300gb?

With Windows, Office and a couple of games installed your 30gb will disappear in a few weeks. I am not even saying that if you want to do as much as to edit your home videos you need 12gb just to capture 1 hour of DV footage.

Or is wanting to edit my home videos removes me from "normal" consumers category?

Craig wrote: "there are players out right now that will send the HD movies over component, which would work absolutely fine."

That is true but they will work only as long as the MPAA hasn't decided that you've had enough of unprotected output and disables your player by revoking its device key.

So you legitimately buy a new HD disc, put it into your legitimately bought player and... nothing happens. And if they have a sence of humour, they may just as easily turn your player into a brick so it won't even play your old discs.

You really think it's fair?