Jones loss a blessing in disguise?
- 14 Mar 07, 10:00 AM
Cardiff - Ok, Stephen Jones has taken some pretty vociferous criticism on various blogs and message boards for his performances in this season's Six Nations, and now he's .
I think a lot of the flak has been pretty unfair to a player who is a great servant to Welsh rugby and I would have kept him at outside-half in Wales' first four games of the Championship.
But said that Jones should have been taken out of the firing line after his battering in Rome and I'm with him on that one (hey, it's not a bad opinion to share!), but let's throw it open for your thoughts - I'm sure there'll be a few as usual on the Welsh number 10 debate!
I think it's clear that James Hook is an outside-half rather than a 12.
Moreover, a physical centre combination of Gareth Thomas and Tom Shanklin should be a real test to the defensive abilities of Matthew Tait and Mike Catt in the England midfield.
Phil Bennett's only concern was whether Hook could really control a game from 10 and whether his tactical kicking was up to scratch and able to test out .
So what are your thoughts - is Hook the saviour Wales need?
Wales 27-18 England
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Oh yes....my view...all's well that ends well!!!
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What are the details of Jones' injury? Did he have a knock yesterday evening after selection? Or was it known all along?
Propaganda stunt? Originally pick the same squad, name Jones as captain, show a united front for the press and critics? Knowing full well, the next day, Jones has this injury, and the team has to be changed to something like the one the Welsh public has been begging for??!!
Surely the Welsh management aren't that clever!!!???
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I think stephan jones is wales leading fly half and one of the best in the game. But Bennys right give him a break (hate to say this) but do what england are doing and use the younger generation. Use Hook aganist England. Really to be honest its the RWC that matters. If we get a six nations whitewash it helps if it opens our eyes for the world cup
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I think cometh the hour cometh the man!
Having Alfie back could just be the extra spark we need to finally get our first win of the season.
Having Shanks and him running off Hooks elusive running might just do England some damage in midfield!
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James Hook is an obvious talent and i think it is all agreed that he is more of a 10 than a 12. However, with the current lack of competition for a play making 12 (especially as Henson when fit doesnt get a look in) I think there is not much you can do plus it gives Hook some experience at this level (Dan Carter played at 12 for a long time before getting the 10 shirt). As for Stephen Jones he has got alot of heavy criticism which i dont think is totally deserved the backs outside haven't been firing very well with the inexperience centres of hook and Robinson early in the tournament and now with players coming in and out with injuries. rugby is all about units and partnerships and it is very difficult to get any form going with so many changes going on. However, Jones as captain should take the criticism for the team. With regards to the original question I think Hook's daring and confidence his youth brings will make him a difficult prospect for the England team to handle (...I hope)
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It isn't gonna make a blind bit of difference unless the pack retain possession, and deliver quick, quality ball for the backs.
The game will be won or lost in the battle of the front 5's.
However, I feel the Alfie & Shanks pairing are alot more qualified to handle Catt & Tait in the centre.
Things have just got a bit more interesting.
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The Centre pairing makes one sit up... the team sheet has a more dynamic feel about it... I'm suddenly excited about the game again!
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This team line-up has the makings of a fantastic team,and with nothing to play for apart from pride,should make for an explosive game.
James Hook proved what he is capable of when he came on for stephen jone sv italy,now its time to give the boy a chance.
wales to win by 3 points!!!!
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From an England supporters point of view, I feel that the line up without S Jones is much more threatening! I feel J Hook offers more flair and vision, and the inclusion of a centre partnership of Thomas and Shanks is quite formidable.
Just hope Matt Tait can prove his potential, he is a great attacking threat and his tackling seems to have come on leaps and bounds, he's a bit of a defensive monster now, being likened to B O'Driscoll is quite a complement!
Can't wait, should be a great game!
C'mon ENGLAND!!!
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Stephen Jones may not have had the best Six Nations but he still deserves his place. He has rejuvenated the Scarlets this season and I sincerely hope that he is fit for the Heineken Cup quarter-final otherwise we're in trouble!
Hook is certainly on the way to being a great player but is he experienced enough yet to control the game against a team like England for 80 minutes?
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Our first bit of luck all season! Not that I'd wish Steven Jones any harm or anything but as Gareth Jenkins would not have dropped him for anything else - we have been blessed in the injury department this time for a change!
Hook is the man. How long have we been waiting for our outside half factory to produce the new Barry John or Phil Bennett? Well here he is... And he's from Port Talbot, can't be bad!
My only slight concern is Gareth Thomas filling the void at inside centre. I hope he doesn't 'bully' Hook into playing something other than his natural game and then make loads of predictable crash ball runs into all the forwards. We need to ensure that Shanklin and the three quarter boys get the ball in space.
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As sorry as I feel for Stephen Jones, I can't help but think that this is the best possible scenario for Wales. Jones hasn't performed well, and Hook is a clear number 10.
Do we know how this injury happened?
Was it during the Italy game or has Gareth Jenkins realised his mistakes and put the boot in himself....
More to the point I bet Catt and Tait aren't relishing Thomas and Shanklin as a centre partnership. Will hopefully bring a much needed physical edge in the middle.
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Got to say that as an english fan i am more concearned with facing a team without Jones. I know all the great 'servant ' quotes will come out but just liim at his form. All his body language suggests a man out of form. His distribution and decision making has been poor, fair enough behind a strugling pack.
What worries me is Englands failure to string performances together. However as i have said before we are heading in the right direction.
By the way how over rated have the Irish been?
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Captain Craps withdrawal will be the best thing thats happened this 6 nations for Wales.
However, with a new more robust midfield, I think we will sneak a victory.
However the massive problems with our game should not be forgotten after the victory, should it happen!
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Fascinating - it's what a lot of self-appointed pundits (including me)have been calling for, drop Jones and move Hook to 10. With Gareth Thomas in the back line, this also adds a physical presence to the back line. Sadly, this may not matter if the Welsh forwards present yet another sub-standard display. I hope that Hook shines on Saturday, this is his chance to show what he can do on the big stage.
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It will be good to see TS and GT together in the centre again and to see how Hooky gets on... but i am worried that a win for Wales will see us saddled with a clueless coach for the foreseeable future....SIGH!
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As a die hard fan of my home country this Six Nations has been torturous. I dont think that Stephen Jones can really be blamed for all of the problems but with quite possible the most important match of the tournament for a Welsh man it is good to finally see Hook play in the position in which he flourishes both for club and in previous international performances. the shuffle in midfield may actually give us some attacking oppertunities and some real chances that have been few and far between this year. Also Gareth Thomas as captain is also a great choice, he should have never lost his captaincy.
CYMRU AM BYTH!
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I feel it will give more balance to the team, however I am a little concerned over the pressure now heaped on Hooks shoulders who has had to stand side by side with the very player everyone has advocated he replace.
It is a great opportunity for him as Cueto is relatively untested at full back at this level.
It is also to be remembered that we cannot play without the ball and that is where we have suffered all season. We have won ball but is has not been of sufficient quantity and quality to properly launch the backs.
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Hook is a good prospect, but Wales will miss Jones' experience. I really cannot understand the criticsm of Jones this season. To my eyes he has played well throughout. Should wales beat England and the wiseacres start claiming that they would have won other 6N matches this year if jones had been dropped earlier that will be a fit of self delusion.
I do not think that their over criticised coach has failed to appreciate Jones' qualities. Unlike the fairweather fans I think he realises that his team have been consistently 5% below par in all departments, and at times outgunned up front.
As ever Welsh backs with someone elses pack would be formidable, and no-one would criticise Jones.
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Hmmm and where did this injury suddenly appear from? Ihave not seen any reports but fr someone to be monitored for an eye injury and suddenly be diagnosed with a broken writs seems very strange.
Have the Management team listened to the support within Wales and seen fit to 'move Stepehn sidewards' with an injury that, if actually exists, he could not possibly play with. This could be a way for Jenkins to climb down admirably over his decision to play Jones when Hook is the obvious No10 and playing well when given his chnace there. Jones has been making mistake afetr mistake througout the 6 nations whilst Hook has steadily been building on his experience and doing very little wrong and the odd missed tackle has been nothing compared to Jones. Don't get me wrong, Jones is a world class No10 but he is so low on confidence and I think it is right to put Hook at 10 and strengthen the defensive abilities of the mid field. It is either a big coincidence that this injury has sudddenly come to light, or has Jenkins chnaged his mind or been persuaded from his management team or higher???
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Every cloud has a silver lining doesnt it? Putting James Hook in at 10 can only benefit wales in my opinion. Not only do you strengthen the center partnership (Hook is not a center) but you also strengthen the fly half position. When hook moved to number 10 on saturday, he immediately made a couple of breaks - something wales have missed from that position. I dont see why Stephen Jones is selected anyway. He doesnt merit his place in the side on his kicking ability because it isnt that good when compared to your chris patersons and ronan o garas of this world. And he doesnt even make many breaks for wales - he's too slow.
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If we beat England, it will simply be papering over the cracks of the problems of a team that play as individuals, a coach whose selections are (in his own words) "emotional", and a captain who isn't up to the job.
We'd be better off (in the long term) if we lost and Gareth Jenkins resigned. Then we could employ a coach who will not behave in a parochial manner. Having said that I will be hoping for a win and (in spite of all the evidence that it isn't going to happen) expecting one in my usual blind optimism.
This is a new dawn for Welsh Rugby, etc.
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Sorry about Jones' injury - let's hope he gets fit soon. For me the real thing is for the Welsh media to also believe in Welsh rugby and to back the players and manager. There are obviously many things to do. The stronger centre pairing, for example, hopefully will help give the backs a bit more chance to run forward rather than side to side. (Charvis' improved form might also add a bit of "go forward"). But it'd be great to see everyone getting behind the team and management with belief - positive and progress focussed. Gareth will be influential with this on the day, as would Steve have been. But the media need to do their bit to help encourage and show faith in the whole Wales rugby team and coaches !
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no
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Good article.
James Hook certainly lacks from a tactical kicking standpoint, but I agree that outside half is his position and the tactical side of his game will improve over time.
In my opinion Gareth Thomas paired with Shanklin in the middle looks an altogether more formidable proposition than Shanklin-Hook, and for that reason alone I'd agree that Jones' loss might well turn out to be a hidden blessing.
Slightly off subject, despite recent results I am expecting a strong performance come Saturday, and the wooden spoon might yet be avoided, Scotland will be up against a wounded animal in France after their horror show against England last Sunday...
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i think hook will be a great nuber 10. i also think that its right to rest steven jones piling more and more pressure on him was never going to help. however i still think he deserves his role as the first choice number ten. he is a much better tackler than hook even while he is out of form. and in form he is as good on the offensive. for now at least hook needs more work. its good there is competition. also to blame alot of the mess ups on jones is totally unfair selecton is clearly not up to scratch. four straight losses and he still hasnt bought the likes of charvis into the 22?
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Hook is in need of exposure at test level. If Jones were injured in a potential RWC qtr final you would need that experience! It has been far too negetive so far, Jones is a pragmatic and strong player, he would never have survived two years in the French league if he was not good enough. The question is is he the right player to play fast and open rugby? The answer is no! It is a little unfair to slam Jones as he is what he is, the reality is Jenkins made a rod for his own back and will not be seen to cow down to dissenters, i would applaud him for that though in as much as Ruddock ended his career under a cloud, if Jenkins starts entering debate now then he will open himself up for worse to come! He is being given enough rope, let us see if he can avoid the gallows, i for one hope so! A few bad results now for a better future is small sacrifice for me! Bring on the game and lets tear them apart! Good luck Hookey!
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Jones is not the problem - it's Jenkins and his "coaching team". But Hook should always have been 10 - he is the best in that position. When the All Blacks where over here they compared him to Dan Carter
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I'm tempted to ask the question 'was he ever going to play'? I can't help but feel that this is all a little too convenient. Is it a propaganda stunt to relieve Gareth Jenkins of the responsibility of having to drop Stephen Jones? Nothing about his wrist has been mentioned before - is it a long-term niggling injury that has conveniently come to the fore at this stage in the championship amid calls for Hook to take the number 10 shirt? Perhaps it's cynical but I don't trust GJ and his parochial, Llanelli-favouring tendencies.
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Whatever the Welsh do with the opportunity to try an alternative to Jones the real injustice here is that Begamasco misses four weeks and is not guilty. I can't find the right blog to post to on this so sorry this is as close as I can get. If he was English there would be a major uproar about the injustice of it all. Jones was cut and concussed by a clash of heads. Why cant the citing officer see that?
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when things don't go to plan it is easy to panic and am glad to see that Gareth Jenkins has not done so.
There are no overnight saviours or instant fixes for what has happened to Wales during this championship. games don't even give a real indication of form -- Wales gave Ireland a run for their money whereas England were hapless an overrun on their visit to Croke Park.Stephen Jones has taken a lot of flak -- more recently physical rather than just a verbal -- Mauro Bergamasco is a talented player who doesn't need to resort to such stupid, mindless acts which do him no credit nor that of the emerging Italian side.
I think a combination of Thomas and Shanklin will give England some headaches but Strettle is a real handful and speedster who unlike Shane Williams also has quite a lot of strength to ride tackles. Mike Phillips might be a better match for Harry Ellis and that is not to take anything away from Dwayne Peel -- it's just that Ellis is very physical and aggressive.
the real test will be in the scrum and how well the Welsh pack can deliver a platform. Despite what is being said about an English resurgence one swallow does not make a summer.
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Rugby is a 15 man game, and though certain responsibility must lie with the captain, i feel jones has had undeserved criticism for the poor results wales have earned this year.
If we beat England on saturday, people will put our victory down to the whole jones being out issue, rather than the genuine passion and determination to beat this england side. as a burryport boy, i'm a big fan of steve jones, but perhaps if we want him to play his best he should relinquish his captaincy to another, martyn williams doesn't want it. ryan jones in a couple of years possibly, but for now it's got to back to the leg end that they call alfie.
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I think Hook is the only other option at 10 for Wales now that Stevo is injured.
But the question that has to be asked is what cutting edge will Thomas and Shanklin offer in the 3 quarters. Jenkins should have brought in either Bishop from the Ospreys or Gavin Evans from the Scarlets......
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Yes. Simple as.
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I for one welcome Hook's move to the 10 berth, as he is a 10, not 12. However I don't think we should class him as some kind of 'saviour'. He certainly won't look like one on Saturday if the welsh pack gets driven backwards (again, players out of position - Popham for example, but that's another matter) Few teams look good with no ball to play with, and a lot of the flak Stephen Jones has received is because of this (though he is also overloaded at captain and hasn't really delivered since 2005)
I just hope that nobody sticks the boot into Hook if he has a bad game - by his standards - as is so typical of the media witch-hunt these days.
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When Jones went off against Australia, Hook stepped up and Wales started to really attack the Aus. Also, when Hook took the helm against NZ Wales appeared to threaten the NZ line. Unfortunately in both matches there was not enough time or Wales were too far behind to really make anything of it. With Hook starting at fly half this time against a strong England team I think he might just convince Jenkins that he is the man to make the jersey his own for the World Cup whatever the result on Saturday (if Jenkins is still in place that is)
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England had the courage to do the same last Saturday and were rewarded twice over with performances from Flood and the substitute Dogherty.It helped having Catt as 12 as will Hook benefit from Thomas.Maybe Thomas hasn't got the kicking game to support him as well as Catt would do but the robust combination of him and Shanklin in that midfield area will do some damage.What is more important is that there is an element of excitement about the new mix and that might be inspirational to the whole team. It's not just a question of holding your nerve it's wanting it more than the opposition and doing something about it.It now feels like it's going to be a tasty game!
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It seems strange to me that for a 15-man game (or in reality a 22-man game these days) there is a lot of concentration on one player. It is a team game and the backs in rugby only have the ball when the forwards get it for them.
For Wales, when the pack is sorted and working properly, then the backs can and should flourish.
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Wake up Wales, Please you cant actually think that Stephen Jones is the catalysist to ur problems. The problems Wales have is they have no game plan. Dont get me wrong I think Wales have a very good team but their playing like a team of individuals. Which can only go so far.
Unless Wales start playing like a team and adding sum structure to their play its not gonna make a difference.
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Well for the Hook supporters, this certainly a game for putting their money where their mouth is!! There is simply no better opportunity for him to state a claim for a spot at 10 for the WC. Aided with the formidable support of an awesome backline combo of Thomas/Shanklin. There is no question that we'll be a handful for the English backs.
However, without posession the backs won't get the platform they need to score, and considering how much the English frustrated the French last weekend it's going to be very tough to do.
And another thing!!
Why the heck don't we in future name the team and then name the captain, just like the aussies do!! Poor old Stephen Jones must be kicking himself for coming back to Wales. All people have done is criticise him and bring him down. Big fish in a narrow minded goldfish bowl is no good for him. Similarly I remember Howley struggling for form as captain as well! Once he then moved to wasps he was back on top and won the HC.
Name the team then name the captain!! It's so simple.........
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One down, one to go!
...But I think it will take a lot more than a limp wrist for 'coach crap' to hang up his scarlet tinted spectacles and resign.
Him and his incompetent team should fall on their swords. I mean what did Nigel Davies ever do as a player but win wooden spoons? He's hardly the master tactician we need to organise our talented backs... And that hothead hooker, Robin McBryde, who's now our forwards coach. What's he going to do but instil indiscipline and show them how to give away enough penalties to lose aginst England, despite scoring three tries to their one (as in the last World Cup quarter final)!
What we want to be careful of is that we don't replace him and his sidekicks with another bunch of losers, e.g. Phil Davies or Dai Young. Let's get some intelligence back into our game. If we can't persuade Ruddock (our only real homegrown option) back, why can't we go with 'foreigners' again, if they are the best men for the job?
On another matter, I'd have Ceri Sweeney starting at inside centre and leave Gareth Thomas on the bench to come on as an impact player, wherever he's needed (preferably full back so he doesn't waste too much ball on pointless charges into the flanks). I can't believe how much Sweeney's been overlooked by the current regime. He's an outstanding player in defence and has great flair in attack. He has proved this whenever he has taken the field in international matches.
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I mus agree with you sean for once, I think that Jones is a good captain and equally good player. but he is obviously going to be low on confidence, and up against a young carefree number 10 in Flood. Having said that I still think he is the one to take us to the world cup as captain. I would definately have brought Charvis into the backrow simply just to mix up the team, he has been playing well enough and would it be a case of horses for courses. I believe that if this wasn't a world cup year that Charvis would retire
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As an Englishman, I'm a lot more worried about Hook at 10 than Jones, especially given the inexperience of Flood at Fly Half. Hook is a born runner/creator and could cause big problems if England should lapse in concentration at any point. However, I console myself with the fact that neither Shanks or Alfie (despite their undoubted pedigree) are the fastest things on 2 legs so Tait might find an opportunity or two. Should be a cracking game!
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i agree with barry, I think the 'injury' was known all along. However, i believe this new team has alot more to offer. Alfie is an inspirational leader and I have no doubts him and shanks are the better centre partnership and will cause old man catt and tait lots of problems.
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I think a lot of people will agree that this may be a good thing. However Jones is a world class player no matter what anybody says. Hook at fly half just makes the Welsh back line look even more threatening with the pace of Morgan, Williams combined with the power of Thomas and Shanklin. We have the weapons to attack the English midfield and if we hit top form I think we can win well.
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Perhaps Jones was a victim of management power. Quite ironic really when he was instrumental in the player power than managed to get rid of Mike Ruddock. And incidentally, what has Wales managed since he - Ruddock - left?
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I think the Welsh team does look stronger with Hook at 10 because he has the ability to expose the lightweight 10, 12 and 13 of England! However, there are players who are still short on form and match fitness in the back line let alone the forwards. Alfie has only played 30 mins in 6 weeks, Shanks and Shaney only a few games, Ryan Jones is still not back to his best, Mark Jones wasn't fully fit for Italy and Kevin Morgan is coming back from an injury that you can never tell if fully healed until you get smashed there! I personally would have started with Phillips at 9, just to relieve the pressure that is building on Peely because I still think he is the best scrum half in the world and to give Phillips a go! Think we have got a chance against the enemy but it is very slim!
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Hook could well be the saviour at 10 - the only problem is whilst Jenkins is at the helm he will not drop Jones come hell or highwater. This being the case playing Hook at 10 on Saturday seems pointless, if as soon as Jones is fit again Jenkins will put him back at 12. Jenkins may aswell have laft Hook where he was and played Sweeney.
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I think the Welsh team does look stronger with Hook at 10 because he has the ability to expose the lightweight 10, 12 and 13 of England! However, there are players who are still short on form and match fitness in the back line let alone the forwards. Alfie has only played 30 mins in 6 weeks, Shanks and Shaney only a few games, Ryan Jones is still not back to his best, Mark Jones wasn't fully fit for Italy and Kevin Morgan is coming back from an injury that you can never tell if fully healed until you get smashed there! I personally would have started with Phillips at 9, just to relieve the pressure that is building on Peely because I still think he is the best scrum half in the world and to give Phillips a go! Think we have got a chance against the enemy but it is very slim!
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Hook must have game time. Steve J could get a knock in the world cup and that is no time to find out if Hook has the character. He must be gradually blooded into the 10 spot, not shielded from it. The more time he has there the better. It's not as if we are chasing the 6N title. he strikes me as the kind of player who will learn quickly from any mistakes he makes anyway. Good luck Hooky!
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It is a blessing and you're right he is obviously too small and creative to play 12.
I'll speak for the nation when I say we want to see Hooky play for 80 minutes. Chaperoned by two of the chunkiest centres in the business, the England midfield must be worried.
Aside from rat face at 15 this is my dream backline, only question now is will Jenkins implement the correct tactics??
Wales to win by 10.
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Hook certainly deserves the 10 shirt given his performance against Austrailia last year and during the current 6nations. Added to this the sub-standard performances of SJ and any rational person would come to the same conclusion.
Had Steven Jones have not been injured I am certain Jenkins would have selected him at 10 ahead of Hook.
GJ's states he selects on form - this clearly is not the case...How many more games does he need to witness before he comes to the same conclusion the as every one else!??
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Changing players will make little difference, it's the coach that's the problem. Having said that Jones has been awful in every game he's been captain and Hook is a far more accomplished player. As for Phil Bennetts comment as to whether Hook can control a game - did he watch the match against the Wallabies in November, if it hadn't have been for Hook we'd have been slaughtered!
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I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but . . .
Stephen Jones aggravates a previously unreported injury, described as "uncommon" and requiring no surgery.
This allows Gareth Jenkins to make the change the fans are calling for, but without losing face!
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A wonderfully coincidental situation. Whether you're a fan of Stephen Jones or not, the fact is that he's been off his best form. Rugby, like lots of sport, suffers from not being able to 'drop' the captains and so the obvious need to try James Hook has not been possible. Here's the opportunity and what a stage! Beat the English at home and there's no chance of 'them' winning the championship, Wales probably won't finish bottom and all of Wales will be talking about being the best team in the Northern Hemisphere again!
James Hook? Well, frankly nothing to lose. If he plays well, it will just add to the myth about him being the reincarnation of Barry John (dream on) and if he has an average game, then it'll be said that 'he's not had long enough'.
Two more points;
1. Look out Matthew Tait - you've got the Shanklin/Thomas combination to handle! It's only two years since Tait was comprehensively hammered by 'Mr. Silver Boots' (aka Gavin Henson - where is he now?) and
2. When will Wales get a Plan A to go with the best Plan B in the rugby? You can have the best backs in World, which lots of people (including me think they have), but unless you win ball and position up front, then you'll either be defending or playing beakaway rugby. Sure, the Italian pack is good but not great and Wales got beaten at that focal point last week. If you're trying to run from your own 22, it looks stylish (and my ears hurt in the pub at such points), but few teams are going to consistently win matches using only that tactic. The Welsh 70's sides were great, with fabulous backs, but those packs were pretty good too!
Stephen Jones or James Hook, Martin Williams, those truly brilliant 'back 3' finishers (Jones, Morgan and Williams), Welsh rugby is deluding itself as a 'certain semi-finalists' unless it gets an effective front-five ball winning team.
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Does G. Jenkins think that we are stupid? Half of Wales predicted this latest move by Jenkins.All he has succeeded in doing is tacitly admiting that his abilities as a coach are inadequate for the job as clearly are those of Davies and Mc Bride.
Our only hope for success in the medium term is clearing out the old guard on and off the field an d pleading with Ruddock to return
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Barry (comment No 1) - our brave reporter Huw Llewellyn Davies asked Gareth Jenkins whether it was a "convenient injury" for Jones.
Jenkins: "There's no question of it being a convenient injury, that would be a coward's way out on selection and a cynical thing to suggest.
"James Hook has gone very well at 12 and worked well there with Stephen.
"I was very comfortable with the original plan to keep them together, but now we've had to change and our game plan will have to adapt."
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I personally think it's a blessing in disguise. Every player goes through a purple patch in form and the coaching staff should have helped Stephen Jones out with the amount of flak he has taken by not picking him. They have merely exposed him to more which no doubt knocks his confidence further.
I still think he is Wales best 10 but if a player is in better form let him play.
No doubt Jones will come back from this and lead us well in the World Cup.
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This is World Cup year and the last chance to really play those in positions that may lead Wales to the best results in France.
Whether you debate the last second fiasco in Rome or not, the bottom line was the loss stemmed from preparation and the 79 minutes of activity leadining up to the said incident. If GJ's stats team had done any homework at all, apart from working out where best to go for coffee and a pint in rome, they can clearly see the lack of possession, kicking away possession and the time it takes Stephen Jones to release the back line as opposeed to Hook and the subsequent difference this makes in attack.
No one finger can be pointed at the dismal displays so far, but GJ and his team have to take responsibility for not paying any attention to the statistics of the past 10 games and having the attitude to address the changes needed. Stephen Jones gets paid to do this and no-one in their right mind will walk out of their job without one to go to!
As for Hooks direction? Every time he has been given the opportunity he has stepped up to the mark, and seems to be one of few that break lines, create space and play with a level of intensity that is not only required but demanded to win games at this level.
We cannot pull on the past, we have 3 games to get this right, so maybe its time for Jones, Alfie and co to say enough is enough and let the new generation show what they have got. We haven't won a game with them, so we can't do any worse without them!
But then again....England have brought back Catt and I definately saw Phil Bennett in Rome.....now there's a thought!!
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I would have to agree with Matt Ling, I was wishing that Stephen Jones would play, beacuse he has been poor this six nations
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It's just a shame that this "injury" has forced Jenkins into making this vital change. Stephen Jones simply hasn't performed at international level this year and he doesn't appear to have the pace a top class number 10 needs either. I'm disappointed that Peel hasn't been removed as well. Long term it's Phillips, Hook, Henson, and Shanks for me.
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I think it's probably for the better and Stephen could well need a rest, great player he is. Hook to me is not a 12 and I think Alfie will bring some power and presence to the side and I would always pick him if fit.
My only concern is that we have two 13's in the midfield. No kicking option at 12 is not a bad thing given that we kick too much possession away anyway but I'm not sure the balance is right there. One thing will will have is more of target for the pack and gain line breaking potential at second reciever. Also agree with Dean that Alfie and Shanks will test the england midfield.
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Stephen Jones has been one of the best No 10's in Wales (and France don't forget) for some time. He is a brave and talented player that always gives 100%. People often forget his defensive abilities as well as his kicking prowess. Ok he's had a dissapointing six nations so far but why pick on Jones. I can think of several other players that have not produced the form they are capable of. Peel has been off the boil and has been less of a threat. The pack as a whole have not been as commanding as they need to be. There's no doubting the commitment of the team but they all need to step up another notch and that's what's missing. Each and every one of the 15 players selected are good enough, they just need to click, have the confidence and things will change.
Hook is a class act but he's still learning and the Welsh public mustn't expect too much too soon. One player cannot win the game, it's a team sport and a collective team effort.
I think Gareth Jenkins decision to keep the team unchanged is also brave and I repect him for that. He's shown he doesn't buckle under public pressure and we need a national coach with a bit of backbone and confidence in his plans. He's basically given the players the responsibility to perform and get a result.
I think Alfie's inclusion is a bonus and he will be up for the challenge - let's hope we see his scoring celebration a few more times on Saturday.
On their day Wales can give ANY team in the world a good, hard game. Let's hope we've turned a corner and produce a good performance on Saturday.
Come on Wales!
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I think this makes a huge difference to Wales and the game now has the promise of one of the best games of the tournament with free running rugby and tries a plenty. I'd like to see England win but it's likely the realistic winner of the Championship will have been decided before kick off, so I'd be happy for rugby to be the winner. Hopefully a good last game for Alfie too.
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He is a loss as he is Wales best player.
Wales are the worst team by far in the 6 nations so to lose their one decent player will make it even harder.
This squad has no strength, depth, quality or organisation.
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RE: Where did this injury come from?
Over-indulgence in what taboo man-sport is reputed to effect both the eyesight and wrist?
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Even though Stephen Jones has not been playing anywhere near what he is capable of, I feel the real factor here is Gareth Thomas' inclusion in the starting lineup; Wales have lacked leadership all year. Love him or loathe him (and I, personally, love him), I feel 'Alfie' is the man for the job.
A last minute Hook drop goal to win it? I can dream.
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I think it is the prejudice that Jenkins has shown towards Henson that has created most of the problems.
Having Hook who is not a 12 playing there has created an extra burden for Jones having to cover him. I am glad to see Alfie back as we need him on and off the field.
You may be chuffed at sharing Phil Bennett's opinions but this is the same man who wanted gareth jenkins and his stadey boys as coaches and they are all worse than useless.
This team is Lions led by Donkeys and the Hook issue is a distraction
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With all due respect to Stephen Jones, this injury is definitely a blessing. He;s not been on form at all over this tournament and this change might actually do the Welsh team some good. It's good to see Gareth Thomas back in his usual position and have an up and coming player such as Hook in at 10. On the subject of Hook, he looks composed and threatening with ball in hand (one of the few plus points to come out of the Italy game).
I originally wasn't looking forward to this game, but this has changed things for the better!
Cyrmu Am Byth!
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Yes the Midfield does look good with the new center pairing but even the best backs in the world can't work without a platform. The forwards need to get control of the ball and spoil the opposition possesion. Going backwards and being driven off the ball is not an option at any level. If we start to give away penalties in every scrum there is and then make stupid mistakes in our own 22 then we might as well not turn up. The game against France proves this since we scored 3 tries to France's 2 but they had 6 penalties converted!!! We are killing ourselves.
However, we know they can do it and we have all seen the potential the "Welsh Way" has so I am behind the lads all the way. "Come on WALES!!!"
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I think Steven Jones deserves a well earned rest, kind of like the one micheal owen needed. Its going to be hard to pick a team for the world cup if we can stay fit, as a few contenders such as Owen, Charvis, B Jones, I Jones, I think Alix Popham is underated, hes a good strong player that can carry the ball and tackle like a train. I think if R Thomas, or M Rees cant get the lineout right maybe Mefin Davies should get a recall ?
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Yes it makes the midfield stronger, but a strong midfield can't do anything without the ball.
Jones has taken a lot of flak, some justified, a lot not. Even God (aka J Wilkinson) struggles when he gets slow ball or ball going backwards.
How about some revisions to the front 5? And the flankers need a rocket up their ......
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this absolutely very good for wales, stephen jones has been awful this six nations and james hook is definitely one for the future, but i do agree with comment 16, that this will produce selection problems
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It was very foolish to keep Steve on the field in a semi-concussed state for over half the game. He didn't make any obvious errors but his condition must have made an adverse contrbution.
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By a strange set of circumstances, Stephen Jones picks up an injury out of the blue. No, not to the head but to the hand? What can this mean? Hook will have to play Number 10 instead of 12. Jenkins' is happy as he stuck to his guns, Wales is happy because they get what they wanted.
Now what happens if Wales win and Hook is a success? Is Jones going to have an extended absence.
Looks a bit fishy to me.
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Stephen Jones although a good servent to Welsh Rugby is past his sell by date. James Hook needs to be nurtured and guided into the right direction, and Fly Half is his best position. More importantly though, is that he needs a good platform to be able to perform and he's not going to get this with the way we are playing at the moment, and i put this down to the coaching staff who are not qualified enough to develop the facets of play required for an international team, something that Ruddock achieved with aplomb.
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the fact that jones is out is surely bad but in a certain way its good cause eventhough he says the fact he is cap doesn't affect i think it does enough to mke him doubt a lot in his game. hook could be the man we were waiting for to make out our first win of the season, just remenber him against the aussies last autumn, he was fab i was gladly in the stadium to see him play magnificiently. he could change everything and just look at alfies in inside center, he's fast and strong and could be a real pain for the english on saturday. we can just wait and see what comes up and hope it will a loss for the scots and a win wales
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Jones being injured could be the major turning point in Wales'sfortunes.Jones has been poor through out the campaign. He is just playing to deep, offers us no pace whatsoever and his kicking has been appauling. With Hook at 10 we can bring some much needed pace into the team. Bringing back Alfie as captain is the right decision he offers good leadership and he will definatly be up for it.Wales simply have to perform for the sake of the coach because if they fail he faces the sack and mostly for the welsh public who need a good performance to lift the nation.
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No I think the real headline is 'Wilkinson loss is a blessing in disguise for England'. You might have a young starlet in Hook but we have a few in Flood, Strettle and another on the bench in Gerahty.
And yes I do believe this is a new dawn for English rugby, despite the loss to Ireland. England are not going to win the World Cup but come 2011 we will be back in serious contention.
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Re: Phil Vat #11.
I agree entirely, a great prospect, and from Port Talbot. Central School as well, great stock.
Hook's always been an instinctive player, and I really don't think controlling a game for 80 minutes will be a problem for him. The lad is class, on and off the pitch.
Hope the band's still going well Phil.
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'Phantom' injury or not, the truth is you cannot hope to win an international rugby match without the ball so unless we can secure a useful quantity of good, quick ball we have no hope, even if england play like donkeys! Secondly we need to play rugby in the right areas of the field i.e in the opposition's half and if we are going to kick to touch then please make sure the ball does just that.
Get better soon Stephen.
C'mon Gareth & the boys.......WIN!
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Amazed to read how confident so many people are about the Thomas/Shanklin partnership in midfield. They are both very good ball-carrying centres, excellent for attacking the gain line. But craft, guile, creativity? I don't see it. (It will be the same problem that England had when they paired Farrell and Tindall). This is clearly a defensive selection, picked to stop England coming through the middle. Even if the Welsh pack can win some decent ball (and that's a big if) can anyone really see it getting out beyond these two more than a handful of times?
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As an English Wales fan, I would love to be in Cardiff on Saturday afternoon but I shall have to settle for being the only welsh shirt in the local!
I have to agree with most of the comments, although Jones hasn't played that badly he hasn't played a captains game. Bringing Thomas back as skipper and giving Hook the kicking duties will give us a better chance but there's a lot of work to do before the world cup!
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I Think SJ has had a poor 6N BUT pretty much the whole team has looked poor, and as a Team looked like a few guys being forced to play by someone who they dislike, in a way they dont want,
We had a team that played open fast rugby, and that got us back into the First Division as ashton calls it.
The Coaches these days dont seem to be able to develop tactics to suit the teams we put out. BUT just try and copy who ever is best at the time,
England won the WC on forward power,and a kicker. at a time when all the SH teams had pretty much abandoned the driving forwards for the wide fast game, when G Henry took over they rebuilt the forwards to also have the power in the pack,to accompany the outstanding backs.
England and a lot of others didnt change until now.
we started to re build in the AB style,and it was paying off but now we have drifted back as i dont think our current coaches can see how to keep developing based on our players, and why we even need to
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A lot of questions will be asked this weekend.
It is true that England cannot rely on their performance against France to carry them through and the Welsh crowd will be a lot less forgiving of handling errors than at HQ. But neither shoul they be measured by their Croke park performance.(I still don't think any team in the world could have beaten Ireland on that day).
Thomas and Shanklin have probably not had much time together but neither have Catt and Tait.
Tait will be wanting to lay a few ghosts to rest on Saturday so I hope Shanklin has his flying boots.
I can't help feeling that there will be a little bit of space in the midfield as defensive players will still be familiarising themselves and that will suit England more than Wales as I think that the Welsh midfield lacks the same pace.
England need to go the same way as against France and play the game in the Welsh 22, that way errors cannot be punished as effectively and Thomas and Shanklin may not be quick enough to beat the cover when (and they undoubtedly will) they break the first line.
Hook has it all to prove now, it seems that all of Wales has wanted this since the Australia game, its not just about goal kicking under pressure though and I would hate for him to have a poor game with all that expectation on him. (i'm English and I don't know why I just made that last comment.)
Here's a comment I never thought I would hear myself saying, this is about Welsh power and strength in midfield vs English pace and finesse.
I need a lie down.
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Re: Jon #27. why compare Hooky with Carter when there's Barry John to consider! Feelings are positive with this "injury" but let's not get carried away boys. Forwards need to get the basics right and deliver quality ball. If that's done, we'll stand a great chance of inflicting a victory on the sais.
p.s. Remember WC2003. Someone has to get to Catt before he gets to us. Over to you Alfie...
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Stephen Jones is still the best fly-half in Wales, and at this moment in time i don't think that is up for question. However i think that Nigel Davis and Gareth Jenkins aren't coaching the backs as efficiently as they should. There is very little variation in the play calling and often moves are too complicated. Wales need to start believing in themselves and start playing the fundamentals of them game again.Being an Ospreys fan i'm glad to see Hook get the 10 shirt, but it belongs to Stephen Jones, period
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Isn't it funny that a lot of you Welsh Fans are holding Hook up as the saviour of your team and future hopes? We've been doing that for years with Wilkinson, one man never makes a team! Yes, he is a great player and looks to be a class above the rest of your backs but he is very inexperienced at International level and with a pack that has capitualted every game this championship the focus should be on other aspects of your entire game rather than pinning your hopes on a player whose lack of support will cost your dear on Saturday
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Andy #13
Over rated enough to thump Englang by 30 points.
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i dont care about steves injury the balance in the back row is a bit sus but with a back line of attacking players should do the number on the old enemy
gareth jenkins should stay as he is a long term coach and will transform us to be a great team mike rudduck was given a team that was built by nz
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Post #29 - I'm with you 100 percent - and I also can't find anywhere else to make the comment. I think the Beeb must be protecting JD who was even more one-eyed on the Bergamasco so-called punch than SJ was after the incident. First thing to emphasise is that no-one should go into any contact situation with a straight arm. Bergamasco was in the wrong - and also very naive. However, it was plain for anyone to see that no contact whatever was made in the region of Jones's right eye - any contact was in the left shoulder/chin/ear area. I notice that the ±«Óãtv has changed its reporting to remove the direct link between SJ's injuries and the 'punch' - but the implication is still there and is probably libellous if Bergamasco wants to take action.
Horan hits Strettle with clear forearm smash - no action - Vickery concussed and out for several weeks - three weeks out - Bergamasco makes light contact with Jones - four weeks out. A three or four match suspended ban would have been much more just and also more effective as it would have threatened Bergamasco's world cup activity. Could the fact that nothing can be done over whatever happened at the end of the Ireland match be an influence here?
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From 6 to 15 (with the exception of Strettle on the wing) I believe Wales are stronger than England. The fact that Hook takes over from Jones does not diminish that fact. However, this game will be won by the front five and while I dont believe the English tight five are world beaters then are light years ahead of the Welsh in those positions. Therein lies Wales's problem. If, by some miracle, Wales manage partity in the scrum and lineout they have a chance. Last weekend I broke the habit of a lifetime and cheered England to victory. This week? Comon Wales!
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I think it is a convenient injury. But all the blame can not be thrown on the shoulders of a man who in the past has palyed exceptionally for his country.Hook will become one of the greats, but the immediate problems lie with the forwards not securing possession and giving away far too many penalties(Horseman being the main culprit).
POB LWC CYMRU
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Is the injury a blessing? Maybe. I feel that SJ hasn't been the player we want him to be since he returned to Welsh rugby, he was such an influence in France and a great player to watch just cast your minds back to last years six nations clash when we played away to Ireland we were formidable over in Lansdown Road where SJ was dictating the game and playing with a smile on his face. Then he was taken out and we called on Sonic the Henson to rescue the game after 10 weeks (over the christmas party period) of suspension. The outcome we lost we lost a pivotal player that day and I feel we haven't got him back. We as a nation of rugby followers have to lay the blame of this campaign at the feet of someone, Who I don't know. We all have our opinions, but as a nation are we right, maybe we need Colin Charvis in creating mayhem and producing turnover ball, even Dafydd James before his injury but we have to (even if our opinion is against it) support our team when they 'Fly the Flag and let the Dragons Roar'. Even I feel that the decision's by the Manager and his Coaching team are a little mind boggling but am I getting paid for this opinion the simple answer is NO, but I'm allowed to ask the question; Are Davies and Mcbride the correct mix of experience for the dynamic pace of international rugby as opposed to the slumbering percentage game of Llanelli Scarlets, I feel that in the first game against Ireland, Nigel Davies had improved the balls skills of the Welsh three quarters but no imagination or Plan B and with Mcbride absolutely no international coaching experience has turned a lethal mobile pack into a bunch of geckos instead of a pack of fire breathing dragons (it's taken Dai Young at least Five years to turn Cardiff Blues into a formidable pack) so sorry gents I think it's time to put up or shut up. For Gareth Jenkins your here for the duration so use your god given right to take the best players in Wales and make them gel, allow them to play to instinct and not to a rigid master plan that's not working, which we all know what that is, 'get the points and play the percentage', even the smallest country could break down the Welsh game at the moment, just get a hold of any Scarlet's game over the last two years but I can say this is that Steve Hansen was also hung out to dry and then we started to scare people ie. New Zealand in the group stages of the RWC and went on to out score the English in the Quarter finals. So if you can turn the team around do it but please don't wait too long I've lost my hair and I think my pace maker has only a few games left and I'm only twenty nine
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I fancy this is gonna be a great game of rugby. I'm English and have not been confident about the Wales match at any point. This is only your second home game, you haven't fired yet and we're the ones you want to beat the most! Shanklin and Alfie will give our midlfield a headache I'm sure and we still don't know which England team will turn up. The game will indeed be won or lost in the packs.
I'll be at the match and I can't wait. I'm hoping for some fast, exciting performances from the youth in the England backs and the usual treats from, Shane Williams et al. At least if we lose, Cardiff will be a much livelier place afterwards. Good luck everyone. See you in the Vaults (Victoria)!!!
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There MUST be somebody up there !
My prayers have been answered at last!
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The only good thing about this is that the press and public will give Steve a break, and will be forced find some other (correct) reasons for wales' poor performances. Hope that Hook has a great game now, god help the poor guy against the media if he doesn't...
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Sorry, Queens Vaults! Wrong pub...
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Every week the downward spiral seems to tighten for poor old Wales and they continue to drift - like a ship without a Ruddock.
If I was a member of the Welsh squad at this moment I'd be bloody angry with the twerps upstairs, and looking forward to taking it out on England.
Worrying, to say the least, PLUS, they've got nothing to lose.
As I was the only person in the Northern or Western Hemisphere to confidently predict an England victory over France - and have 1800 quid to show for it, my instincts worry me.
I've got a nasty feeling England are going to get stuffed.
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while it probably is for the best that jones is put of the lst match, i feel that is highly unfair he is being made the scape goat for wales's failings this year. wales havent done the job as a collective team! it's notjust the fault of jones. he was very good against france and as a munster fan i reckon he'll be a really tough opponent when we play llanelli. plus it is time for hook to show what he can do over a whole game! he's brilliant. i hope wales do get it together soon as i really admire them and with such a rich tradition of rugby, it's not great seeing the situation there are in now. bring back ruddock i say- he may not have had respect from the players but he was helping them to win matches- grand slam 2005.
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I think Tait will be happy. While Alfie and Shanklin might put in a big hit or two, they'll have to catch him first. They may be wise old heads but this is the slowest Welsh centre pairing I've seen for a while - facing the quickest and best served English backline for years.
As an England fan I'm smiling!
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The difference between Jones and Hook is that Jones has all the pressure of expectation riding on his shoulders. So, whether he knows it or not, he's bound to instinctively play a more conservative game. Basically, in his mind, he can't afford to mess up. Hook, as an underdog (and much younger) in the fight for the no 10 shirt, has much less pressure. His instinct will be to make his mark by doing something special - so he's bound to play a more fizzing creative game. At this level, these psychological differences are often what separate the good from the great. It was the same with Gavin - plays great, superstar overnight - weight of expectation crushes him (but he'll be back).
Re Sunday - Wales are always at their best as underdogs. Having Hooky at 10 reinforces that. Should be a great game - with Wales to edge it.
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Stephen Jones is a world class 10. It's difficult to release the backline when your forwards aren't at least at parity with the opposition and you've got an inexperienced inside centre who you cover for defensively.
Thomas will only make a difficult situation harder as he's more likely to hold on to the ball and get isolated. Bridgend fans will remember this well from when he played there with Dafydd James.
Flood will shovel that ball fast and they'll tear him up.
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Interesting. My main concern is the strategy with the Welsh game apparently not wanting to play possession rugby (what IS the maximum number of phases put together during this tourney?) and Hook being let off the leash, making the break and heading for God knows where, I think there will be more responsibility for the wingers just to get after him in support as the pace in the middle may be just a bit lacking. This will cause the pack to have to think more about their positional play as cover will be required. If this is taken up the patterns of play on both sides will be in disarray and we may see a game like the NZ v Wales world cup game of 4 years ago and that would conclude the tourney with a wonderful bang!!
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Get rid of Jones, he's overated and a useless captain. Look at how wales is doing! Get Hook in, bring in the Youth and the no fear attitude and it will work. But seeing as I'm English i reckon Rees is going to nail him!!!
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Although I am the eternal optimist when it comes to Wales playing, I don't think it matters who plays at 10 as I can't see us winning because the pack really isn't good enough to compete up front and our dangerous backs will be starved of possession. Hook has the potential to be a great fly half, a la Bennett and Barry John, but it is well worth remembering that he is still young and learning, and spending some time playing at 12 under less pressure, will be benefitial to his development as happened with Dan Carter. Lets also not build him up too much so that the media and some people who've called for his inclusion at 10 can knock him down if things go wrong on Saturday. Come on Wales!!!
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It seems to be a tale of injured outside halfs. No Jonny Wilkinson and now no Steve Jones. Well, as neither side can now depend on metronomic goal kicking, let's hope we see some running rugby. England's pack have to play like they did against France and Scotland and not like they did against Ireland to give the backs a chance. The England back line up looks the most attacking for years but they can't do it unless the fat boys win the ball. The Welsh backs look tasty but the pack haven't been firing yet. It probably needs the sight of a white shirted sais to get then going. However, those Welsh runners are capable of hurting any team from broken play.
Looking forward to the game. Just hope it lives up to it's potential - it should be a cracker.
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earlier post said alfs and shanks have more experience to handle catt and tait. i feel that englands centre partnership will need more to handle our midfield. This centre partnership breathes quality. look how catt sorted out the backline for England against france - thats exactly what thomas will do for wales. and finally i can watch hook at fly half for his country like i watch him week in and week out for club. what is jenkins going to do for selections if this backline fires. also i hope he brings on phillips after about 60 mins not the last 5 mins as this guy is good.
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Is this the Blog about the "Nothing Match", Two poors teams playing for nothing. Oh Sorry yeah Wales are playing for the Wooden Spoon, Gud Luck England you can still win the Championship.......HA HA.
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Nice one Dave. How's the Halifax in Halifax treating you? Done a song with Howard yet?
Aubrey Straw come out of retirement every Christmas and Summer for a good old session. If you're back home keep an eye out!
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Speaking as an English fan I think it's very sad that Jones is out. Wales will almost certainly replace him with a rugby player rather than somebody's nan and Wales will be all the more dangerous for that.
However I would only start to get really worried if they got rid of Jenkins and replaced him with a real coach like Ruddock.
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the problem is the coach not the player. Jenkins said todat "we DO have a weakness at 12" despite the fact that Gavin Henson is world class. He dropped Henson because of "form" yet chose to keep virtually every other player in the side AND added an Alfie who has not played much rugby in two months.
Wales will keep going backwards because the coach simply has no idea what he is doing.....A grand slam winning side of just two years ago are now approaching the world cup bereft of confidence...Jenkins says "It takes time to build a side" but he has INHERITED a good one.....please Jenkins, do us a favour and resign
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Great News for Wales. Jones looks psycologically shattered from a demoralising 6 nations campaign, and from the burden of being Wales' star player And Captain. I thought Jenkins' decision to name him as captain was poor, and he looks like a player stifled by the intensity of carrying his nations hopes on his shoulders, not least because he has failed to deliver in one single match of late.
On the upside, Hook is a tremendous talent. Quick and elusive, with good running lines and a monster boot, he is not a bad replacement! and with the steadying influence of Gareth Thomas at 12 we could be in for a youthful duel that could characterise future championships...Hook vs Flood, who will be the victor? i am looking forward to what should be an explosive little sparring session!
Looking at the inability of the Welsh backline to penetrate, let alone create any chances, how many of you Welshmen are willing to eat the most humble of pies and finally say: 'It would be better if Henson was around'. With a backline of Hook, Henson, Shanklin, Williams, Thomas and Morgan (not his biggest fan but coming around) Wales would be a lot more difficult to beat, that is a Fact!
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In my opinion the main problem we have is the coach. Jenkins is not an international coach. His only experience of coaching at a high level has been with the Scarlets, so he doesn't have the breadth of experience necessary to coach an international team.
It seems that his continued selection of Stephen Jones at number 10 and captain is based more on emotion than form. Hook is a natuaral number 10 as demonstrated during the Autumn and briefly last Saturday.
Whatever the true story behind this wrist injury, moving Hook to 10 and bringing back Alfie as captain (long overdue)is the best chance we have of winning this weekend. I have a renewed sense of anticipation about Saturday - I just hope I'm right..!!
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I think SJ is being made a scapegoat here. To lay blame on one man is wrong. The coaching staff and playing team leaders create the game plan (strategy/tactics) and I believe that is at least 8 people. I have not seen anyone on the Welsh Squad do anything outstanding this 6 Nations. The whole lot are misfiring. Take a look at the indiscipline. I don't think SJ single handedly gave the French Captain all those gifts at goal...
The whole crew should take a look at themselves in the mirror.
I also hate to say it, but I hope we lose Saturday just to prove a point now that SJ is out. Wales, take a good look at yourselves and create a new game plan.
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Classic - a bad six nations and the discussion centres around the fly-half. Crashegg (94) makes the important point - what's happened to our pack! Hopefully James Hook will develop into a world class fly half but that's irrelevant - I think SJ is close to that too - but I've never seen any of them play well without the ball or one received on the back foot. The pack .... interesting the discussion is around Colin Charvis bringing balance to the back row. I wonder what Michael Owen (who I believe has actually WON something) thinks!
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I feel a bit sorry for SJ--he's an undoutedly great player, and had he not been injured against Ireland in 06 we could well have won that match.
However, I do feel that it's time to face the facts. Every team so far has outplayed us (even SCOTLAND!) and thats mostly to do with our front five, but also partly to do with inconsistent selection. What we don't need to do ist play a different side each week because of different opposition. We need a settled 15 with a game plan they all know. Hook is a great player, easily the equal of any 6N fly-half, although i still think a years blooding at 12 wouldnt be such a bad thing, but having him in the side wont produce a miracle solution to all our problems.
And one more thing: why do i seem to be the only person concerned about our lineout?
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Sean,
Next time a ±«Óãtv reporter gets close to Gareth Jenkins can they ensure he suffers a "convenient injury"
I'm sure if you had a whip round the rugby-supporting public of Wales would more than match a ±«Óãtv salary.
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Stephen Jones does not deserve the critism levelled at him nor does Gareth Jenkins. Yes Wales did well under Ruddock but would the players want him back !!
I think Stephen when he is fit is a great 10 that links forwards and backs. Hook as good as he is just lacks the experience. As much a fan of SJ as I am I think the captaincy should go to Gareth to alleviate extra pressure. Don't forget it was officials that disallowed the try against Ireland and that cocked up the Italy game.
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I'm an England supporter but I've watched all of Wales' games. Wales have played pretty well but have just been pipped to the post in most of their games and Chris White didn't really help them either! Stephen Jones is an awesome and inspiring captain and without him in the side I think Wales are losing something major. However,it increases the chances of England winning! My final comment - Come on England!!!!!
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no denying Stephen Jones is a world class player, but he has looked out of sorts since coming back to Llanelli, and is not the same player. He looks as if he has less time on the ball, and seems unsure in his running game. I think the added burden of captaincy is doing this. I dont think any fly-half should captain an international side.
He already has the burden of organising the backs defence, choosing how to attack, what moves to do next, have a solid tackling game and make sure his kicking game is up to scratch. It is too much for him to handle. They should not drop Stephen but find another captain.
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As a english man i see hook as the best fly half. Though he better make sure he finds touch as the english backs are bursting with pace and abilty(if not size) Strettle, robinson cueto , tait, flood and ellis all have serious pace. I think a aging Gareth Thomas might struggle with taits pace.
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Ive been sayin for ages that hook should play 10 he is a fantastic player. From an english point of view, i feel more scared with hooky at 10. However, it is a fact that wales will lose if the welsh front 5 does not pick up its game. The back row have done well, but the f5 have been dire. Also, you may complain how you were kinda robbed by the ref, but it only covers up the truly bad perfomance against italy.
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All the nonsense talked about Hook versus Stephen Jones is like the argument about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic !!The pack is the problem...why can't we win crucial lineouts;who's calling the line outs ...why doesn't the No8 push in the scrums...why do we always kick out long(because the pack hasn't got the muscle to compete for the ball?)...why are none of our tight five smashing into the opposition at speed...Wales have got the best backs in the six Nations and the worst pack...until some really imposing forwards come along we'll go nowhere!Michael Owen has all the same faults so how is he the solution?? At least Charvis is hard and experienced ...not naive ...He should have come back after the Scotland game to at least lead the pack...
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Stephen Jones will be a loss for wales, but at the moment they need someone in the number 10 shirt that can set them on fire.
James Hook can do this for them he has nerves of steel and he will excel in that role.
Gareth Thomas will be a big boost for them but they will all have to put a mighty performance in to beat the English.
Jenkins will have to let them off the leash so that they can really cut loose.
Good Luck to them all.
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I have predicted an emphatic win for Wales every game this tournament and the presence of Hook, Alfie and Shanks makes me feel every bit as confident (?) this time. Ymlaen Cymru!!
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I agree with Dai Bach, its the forwards that have not yet performed well this season. This is a little strange as they all seem to do well for their clubs against other clubs' international players. Maybe its something to do with the way they are coached?
Being a Neath fan I'm glad for James and would only wonder what the late Brian Williams would say if he had witnessed the performance of this years Welsh pack. There would be some swear words included I'm sure.
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The Jones/Hook situation is just the Welsh playing mind games. The sudden injury seems a bit too convenient, it resolves all the problems of changing centre without knocking team confidence.I suppose we should look forward to more Welsh Psych as the match approaches. Having seen how the delay on entering the stadium by Ireland really put England off, I am taking a book on Saturday to read whilst waiting for Wales to turn up.
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i hope i am wrong but without sj we will be weaker in defence not only at 10 but both centres are crash centres and maybe lacking in pace but both are strong but will shane get much ball. some one is going to have to hit tait hard and knock the confidence out of him. But our biggest problem is our pack we are going to be on a hideing to nothing if they play as they have been .Englands backs look hell of a lot sharper now than i have seen them in years.LETS PRAYOUR TEAM WILL COME ALIVE AGAINST THE OLD ENEMY
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A blessing in disguise? Seems harsh but probably true. I'm not sure that Hook is a better 10 than Stephen Jones right now but he is definitely in better form and one thing this 6N has proved is that Hook is not an inside centre. Or at least it's not his best position.
I think picking Jones as captain come what may was a mistake. Between Jones, Peel, Alfie, Martyn Williams, Duncan Jones and Ian Gough I felt Wales had enough leaders they could afford to go back to the old days and select a captain from the best XV. I believe it would've suited our squad better and it'd allow for Jenkins to pick more of his horses for courses selections. Sadly as we've found out Gareth Jenkins only believes in selecting horses for courses and picking players on form when it suits him. I think Jones was the right 10 for France and Ireland but I think Hook would've been the better choice for Italy and Scotland where that little more invention and less game management would've been golden. Similarly I'd have picked Mike Phillips against France. Not because I think he's better than Peel, he isn't there yet, but simply because he terrorised France 12 months ago and they were clearly scared of him when he came on this year.
Sadly Jenkins' horses for courses policy seems restricted to the front 5 and his picking on form seems restricted to players who don't play for the Scarlets.
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The quality of the flyhalf is dependent to a large extent upon the quality of the players in front of him. Wales are being battered up front and do not expect to go forward. James Hook routed Italy on Saturday and Wales lost 7 points because of it. Can the pack be expected to gain parity over England having failed against everybody else? Do England have the weakest pack in the 6 nations? Gareth Jenkins seems to think the answer is yes.
Wherein does the problem lie?
Stephen Jones/James Hook/Welsh rugby which has no alternatives?
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Rubber Jesus your an idiot="I console myself with the fact that neither Shanks or Alfie (despite their undoubted pedigree) are the fastest things on 2 legs so Tait might find an opportunity or two." they are two of the fastest people in the welsh squad only made look slow by the sheer pace outside them in M Jones, S Williams and K Morgan. Another point to add they are hugely physical so I feel Tait may have an opportunity or two to me bad to look/feel like a school boy again like two years ago.
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Is James Hook related to Henry Hook of the South Wales Borders, who got the VC at Rork's Drift in 1879?
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Is James Hook related to Henry Hook of the South Wales Borders, who got the VC at Rork's Drift in 1979?
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I am very excited to see a Welsh team with Shane and Alfie back on form. I like Stephen Jones but I think Hook is the better man at 10.
The weakes player in Welsh rugby currently is Gareth Jenkins. let's get rid of him before the World Cup PLEASE! ...and let's get Henson back in the squad too.
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Frankly does it really matter who plays at 10, as we have a pack of forwards seemingly incapable of holding their own against anything in the six nations so far. Even the "peoples choice" Gareth Jenkins seems in doubt!! two crash ball centres !! its fairly apparent that he is seeking some alternative way of breaching the gain line,one that does not include the numbers one to eight. The question that would seem to scream for an answer is, how can a team have fallen so far so fast in less than two years, with a large number of players that won a grand slam involved in this current squad what has gone wrong ???? No one realisticaly expected them to win another straight away but come on, we are mediocre at best. This world is going to be truly painful unless there is a dramatic shift in attitude amongst the whole of the welsh set up and not just the players, one final thing Steven does not deserve the vitriol he has experienced, he is one of the very few players i can recall who has given everything he is and has whenever he wears that jersey.
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I find it quite strange that the Welsh media are so obsessed with the #10 debate - could it be because they don't really understand what's going on up front so an easier option would be to focus on the backs?
Wales has struggled all season up front. Simple. So it doesn't matter who you pick at outside-half if you can't win any ball. Daniel Carter playing at 10 for Wales wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference in any game that we've played this season.
The problem we have is finding a good combination of forwards that can compete with other countries...
So I suggest everybody gets off Stephen Jones' (and Gareth Jenkins' back for that matter)and stop believing all the tripe that's printed in the Western Snail.
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Whilst I believe Stephen Jones did need replacing I find some of the comments regarding the Injury disgracfull. Unfortunately this is the type of sick mentality people are capable of showing. And lets be honest you could put the best set of backs in the world in, but if you have forwards who are not, or have not been able to supply the ball what difference does it make. On a final note It is allright for Gareth Jenkins to be his own man, however it does not hurt to listen sometimes, "which he seems incapable of doing"
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For all the criticism of Stephen Jones, he's clearly not the reason why we've managed to lose every game.
Ryan Jones should hang his head in shame with a series of low powered performances that a number eight for Tenby U-9s would be embarrassed at.
The hairbears have been desperately disappointing, hookers can't throw straight, Peel looks lost behind a beaten pack and why do we keep throwing so many forward passes?
Despite the problems, Popham has been excellent, and Kevin Morgan would be world class if he wasn't made of glass. Hook and Flood seem pretty similar - both are deceptively quick with good vision.
Could be a classic Wales-England game, or could be a stodgy nervous affair like 2005. Either way though, i'm not convinced that Stephen Jones' injury will benenfit Wales as the Flood/Geraghty dimension will be an unkown for the Welsh defence.
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Every cloud has a sliver lining and while I feel for Jonesy I disagreed from day 1 about 'dropping' Alfie from the captaincy role. Lets face it he is pretty much the Keano of Welsh international sport and when you want the boys to 'go over the top' who do you want to be behind? Living in NZ I would die to be there so will everyone just get down the Owain for 10.30 have a great time and support the nation like it deserves. We've all been here before and have come out again bigger, better, stronger and more successful!
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Having the Welsh Managers job must be tough. All the 1970s players pitch in with something to say. Its like the Scotland football job! Wales have some great players some of the best players in the championship they just have to perform on the day!
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I think this is a blessing, he has been a good player over the past few year's, and a lions call up last year was just rewards, but i strongly think that he has been very poor in the 6 nations, on his day he is the best number 10 in the country but sometimes it seems (in any sport) the manager is SCARED to drop big name players when they are off form. GET WELL STEPHEN, Come back strong!
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I am a fanatical England supporter and an even more fanatical supporter of our wonderful game of rugby union. Being able to look at the current Welsh situation objectively, it seems unfair to blame the general on the field, when he is being let down by his troops. Jones is not playing his best, but he is a class player and as is often said, form is temporary and class is permanent. However, he is only partially resposnsible for the game plan and he cannot make up for under performamnce of his team mates.
On another note, why do international coaches insist on playing players out of position? England did it under Robinson and at last, Ashton has put a 12 at inside centre and a 13 at outside centre. Thomas is class, but he is not a 12 and he does not have the creative instincts to release the outstanding 13 you have in Shanklin. No doubt strong and solid defensively, but reminds me of Noon playing at 12 for England. Fairly one-dimensional and accordingly, not too difficult to defend against.
Enough talk; bring on the game and here's hoping for a cracker!
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I must admit I can see Stephen Jones has lossed a lot form during the match against New Zealand, there were some dubious attempts at touch which he missed which allowed new zealand to immediately bounce on,
But you can't blame a single player for a team effort .
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It doesn't matter who is at ten because our forwards are weak and unfit!! tens need to play off the front foot in the modern game as defences are so quick.
Ryan jones couldn't break through a wet paper towel at the moment, so why no charvis. Selection has been terrible, is there a WRU conspiracy going on with contracted players. Not only Jarvis but Dafydd James was left out when we had NO WINGERS. I believe he is top try scorer in europe this season!!
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I think it's unfair to think replacing SJ at 10 will stop the rot. There isn't a single area of play that has been functioning well for Wales.
Pack, as a whole:
Lacking leadership, something Charvis has in bundles. They need to play as a single unit rather than a group of individuals.
Front 5:
Not providing enough fast ball for the backs, hammered in the scrummage and over complicating the lineout. They need to be quicker to the breakdown and secure quality ball.
Back Row:
No real structure (this applies to the entire pack, no real ball carriers and not making the big hits when required.
Scrum Half:
Kicking too much ball from the back of a breakdown. This is partly because of the slow delivery from the forwards. Peel hasn't been on great form this tournament. Maybe someone with the physical presents of Phillips would be a better choice behind a beaten pack.
Fly Half:
SJ is a great 10 on his day. However I think the captaincy is too much for him. It may be time to look to someone like MW to take the helm and remove some of the pressure form SJ.
Hook is the logical choice to replace SJ. The question is will all the preasure from the press and fans be too much for him? Much of the media have made it quite clear that they think that playing Hook at 10 will solve all the problems, that's a lot of pressure on a any player.
Centres:
Hook has done well but is certainly a fish out of water at 12. Shanks hasn't had a bad 6N but he needs to make fewer basic mistakes.
It's hard to comment on the wings and full back as they haven't seen enough ball to shine. However they have looked good in defence.
Part of the problem is GJ sticking to the same 22 week in, week out. The players feel assured of their place. There needs to be more competition. GJ needs to ring the changes to let the players know they have to perform as individuals and as a team if we are going to win matches.
This all boils down to the simple fact: If you haven't got the ball you're not going to score.
I hope the team can gel this week and give the English a run for their money.
If they get it right Wales to win. If not I think a thrashing might be on the cards.
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johnblackmalvern wrote:
Is James Hook related to Henry Hook of the South Wales Borders, who got the VC at Rork's Drift in 1879?
John, Unlikely. The 24th Foot (later South Wales Borderers) recruited from both sides of the border. Henry Hook came from Gloucestershire and would be playing in a white shirt.
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To return to the original question- Jones loss a blessing in disguise- papers over the real problems in the Welsh team. It is the lack of quality posession that is at the heart of the failures this season plus the ability
of the Welsh pack to carry the ball and create a platform for what must be regarded as a quality set of backs. So no, it is not a blessing in disguise - what we need is a disciplined, aggressive and confrontational performance from numbers one to eight.
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I think Phil Bennett has it about right - currently Jones is your best 10 but he is not on form and took a hammering on Saturday both physically and emotionally. Hook coming in freshens things up a bit and with the runners outside Wales could be dangerous again.
The personnel look about right to me, I think it is your best tight 5 and back row and once they start gelling they will be handful - at the moment everything is too lateral - it is all well and could trying to throw the ball about but it still needs runners hitting committed lines which just hasn't happened yet - sadly from an English standpoint that will probably be Saturday!
As for England - well I think we are in a similar place to Wales (results in the 6N notwithstanding), still trying find our best 15 and then developing a game plan around it. Some good signs on Sunday but alot to do.
That said I hope for a classis Eng v Wales encounter....
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Its fact is that everybody who has returned from the last Lions tour has been at best poor including GJ and Andy Robinson who are one in the same in their approach to coaching (surround themselves with people they trust including players and to hell with the rest) It took England two years to get some momentum how long will it take Wales? Hensons confidence was dramatically effected by Woodwards mind games and he has yet to recover. The rot set in 18 months ago, fitness coaches have left and it shows in the forwards, forward thinking backs coaches have left and it shows in the lines being run. Poor old Steve Jones is taking the brunt of it lets hope he recovers.
At the end of the day Hook IS class but GT's lack of pace and Shanks's lack of matches could well be a factor with the Ashton young guns running at them. With Coeto's left peg keeping Wales in their own half Catt's tactical kicking and the Welsh forwards lack of ball winning ability in any area this match could be a disaster.
5 forwards on the bench? Mark Jones will be off injured at some stage and Morgan never competed once in the air agains't Italy because he is guarding his jaw. Phillips had better brush up his centre and wing skills and lets hope Peal does not get a knock.
The Welsh crowd will have a huge job to do and influence on the game, if the English new boys silence them God help us. Jones's injury? Hook in? all masking the real problems, if this was a Scooby Do cartoon they would rip off Jenkin's mask and beneath would be Sir Clive himself!!!!!!!!!
Phillips, Hook, Henson, Parker, Williams, Burne I bet Lyn Jones and the Ospreys are rubbing their hands together for they are the future
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We shall see, the majority of wales has been pleading for this change and the time has come to see whether the public are right or is Jenkins. I feel that Peel should be rested and that Philips be given a game, he is certainly a handy option when we come across a physical pack, perhaps it was a game to late, we could have done that cetainly in the second half against the Italians. Is it just a case of being paranoid or has the welsh coach got something against the Blues if my memory serves me well didn't Wales put up an extremely good fight against perhaps the winners of this year's six nations Ireland and at several stages of the match most of the team were Blues but now they have been discarded i.e Jamie Robinson scores a lovely try against the French so Jenkins no matter the so called reasons, rewards him with an early exit from the squad. Oh to be a Scarlet and see the players be rewarded for mediocre performances in a welsh jersey by a regular place no matter how this lowers the optimism and passion of a nation.
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Post 66 Juan Kerr
Cracking effort, wasted on egg chasing eggheads!
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Apparently this is what the welsh public have wanted since febuary the 4th 2007 or mabye even before! Now i am a huge james hook fan having seen him play for the under 21s last year or whenever it was and you could tell he had a little something special about him, so lets sit back and let the boy do his job and if he steps up to the plate lets just hope that jenkins doesnt reverse to jones when hes fit because jones has had 5 games to prove his worth in this championship and well lets be honest , hes been very poor!! hook to inspire a wonderful welsh win in Cardiff!! Come on Cymru!
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My last comment I put forward for post has obviously not been allowed as it may have been slightly darrogatory towards Scarlet players. So yippee!!! let's make the whole team Scarlets it is obviously what Gethin Jenkins wants a few Ospreys put in for political correctness. Leave the Blues out like we normally do after all they will only finish top side in Wales for second year running. We do not have the players who deserve a run after all who are Phillips and Robinson (dropped for scoring and nearly looking good enough to upset Jenkins apple cart). Jamie is in the process of getting back to his old form which is more than we can say for Steven Jones. Do not get me wrong their is nothing more i would like than all the Welsh players hitting their best form at the same time. But when they are awful drop them and make them earn their places back. Not drop them when they must be on a high i.e Jamie after his superb try against the french.
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To suggest one young man can be the saviour of Wales this saturday is extreme in the least. James Hook is a great talent and I wish him the very best on Saturday. He will be the next number 10 by regular choice in time to come, as I believe Phillips can be at 9. but as for saturady or any game in futture we'll only win by a full on collective effort. W v E has that extra spice but please could all those myopic fans who spout 'as long as we beat England' please shut up -it does our game no good at all even if beating England is a moment to savour. The Irish and The Scots love to beat them as much as we do but I'm sure they're not happy until they can say 'say as long as we beat everyone.' Beating England on Saturday will not and should not mask the issues since Ruddock left 2 years ago. If I remember that had some 'player power' behind it. May I suggest there's only one place for player power and that's on the turf starting Saturday.
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A couple of key points re: SJ and the pack. Neither has helped the other in this six Nations. SJ has alwys received the ball with the pack going backwards, but through bad SJ place kicking and especially restarts the pack doesn't have a chance to turn the ball over or even get their hands on it.
SJ had a couple of very good seasons (when he was playing in France) but prior to that and since his return, his positional kicking and restarts have been very poor. His restarts are always placed too deep without any chance of the Welsh forwards getting up to compete and therefore the ball is just returned with interest into the Welsh half to give the opposition attacking ball.
If you compare the restarts for England v France, the ball was nearly always 50-50 with forwards given the chance to compete.
Hook needs to concentrate on these points. And for heavens sake Peel & Hook don't just boot the ball up field straight to the opposition. That has meant we were always going backwards and defending. If you're going to kick, please do so into space where the backline can chase. But even better just go through the phases and make the opposition win the ball rather than just gifting it to them.
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really looking forward to wales england match!it'll be really tough but england should just get the win. have to say if strettle is opportunity he will makes wales pay! looking forward to seeing flood and geraghty try and prove last week wasnt a once off! dont reckon it was but you never know! poor old stephen jones. getting the blame for what the manager should be taking! have to say hook and ryan jones and dwayne peel are great players tho. also is kevin phillips still part of the squad? thought he was outstanding in 6n 2006 v france!
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I am sure that Hooky will go well at 10 and Alfie will add a bit of spice at 12.
Let not forget though - Stevie Jones is class and at present I do not see anyone usurping him for the world cup if he is fit.
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i know gavin henson has gotten alot of stick but i always thought he was a very good player. he hasnt struggled any more than any other welsh player to be honest so i think he should at least be considered. he's a class player. maybe it's because i'm not welsh but i would rate him highly and so do many other irish ppl like myself!
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After the Slam two years ago and in the context of suffering in a foreign land since 1976 (aaah! blessed memories of those Crowning Years) please deliver me from my pain by 7pm on Saturday.
Praying aside, we/they must remember that the forwards give backs the means to deliver. One or two good men are not enough - they must have the b.... ball. We unlike the Sais seem to overlook this everytime in our quest for a new King John. But I still believe ...... if we can get parity up front for 60 minutes (at any time in the match)then we will overcome. Men of Harlech ....... come on!!!!!!
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Any brave predictions out there??
We are due to spark if we get some ball so hear goes - Wales to win by 10 points
Come on - put show points not pints where your mouthes are?!!
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In regards to 156.
I believe then that im a myopic welsh fan because beating the english could be one of the greatest things this welsh team could achieve.
Marsaille Rugby World Cup Quarter Finals Saturday / Sunday. (when they qualify from the group)
If they do that they face Ireland or France in the semis. Anything can happen post quarter finals in the world cup they could even make the final. OK that is getting ahead of ourselves a little but the crunch game for Wales at the world cup will be the quarter finals. We face Engalnd or South Africa. With a possible rematch of WC 03 it is a tantalising prospect.
Sundays game is merely a yard stick to measure us against a possible World Cup opponent. Which is what this whole six nations should have been about. So if Steven Jones plays or not is inconsiquential. Its if he plays in October that counts.
On a seperate point entirely what did Jamie Robinson do wrong to lose his place to Gareth Thomas/Tom Shanklin?
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OK Stephen Jones has not been playing well,we are all agreed on that but he was not not playing well in the New Zealand game but has constantly been picked since then.
There seems to no real game plan at all,the forwards need to get fit and stay of the pop and Wales must not get involved in a game of aeriel ping pong.Keep the ball in hand,I thought that they would have learnt that from the All Blacks,we kicked to them and they scored.
When Ruddock was in charge there seemed to be a different mentality from the whole squad,they seemed to enjoy the game,now when you look at them it seems they are going through the motions,like doing a job(but not very well).
I live in hope that they perform but I have this sense of impending doom.Is it only me???
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Making SJ captain was the first mistake of many made by this useless welsh coaching team. playing outside half carries enough pressure without having to worry about the captaincy and everything that comes with it. whilst SJ cant be blamed for losing 4 matches single handily (the possession stats are the main problem), when we have had the ball we havent caused the opposition any problems and neither has SJ. hook has made more breaks and clever kicks in his 20mins at outside half than SJ has all tournament.
even if he isnt ready for the big stage (i have a feeling he is) what do we actually have to lose in playing him!? we are still going to be bottom of the table if we do win.
if the front five can compete, infront of a home crowd and with some good ball we have got one of the best opportunities to beat the overrated english. part of me doesn’t want us to win as it will silence the critics for a while longer and allow Jenkins et al to continue to undue all the good work of rudduck and even the two kiwis!
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Stephen Jones may be very, very good, but he lacks the spark of magic that Hook (and Henson, come to that) can provide.
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It's good to see some decent and sensible discussion. Gareth has fallen into the same trap that undermined him with the Scarlets - his reluctance to use his bench effectively. Understandably he has been limited by injury this season, but why include Gavin Evans, an on form inside centre, in the squad if you're not prepared to use him. The same applies to Hook - maybe he does lack experience - but where will he find it at this level unless you play him? he should have been allowed at least some opportunities at outside half this 6ns. The same applies to Mike Phillips - when your pack is on the back foot, a bit of forward momentum by a big physical no 9 can be a major advantage. Why aren't we playing Phillips for 40-50 and then bring Peel on or vice - versa and the same at 10? Stephen Jones is an excellent outside half and certainly equal to O'Gara - but he is clearly under pressure.I also have a real fear that our press is starting to develop a taste for trashing both players and coaches - reminiscint of tabloids roundingon England coaches (soccer) and where has that got them?
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Hook is the better choice at fly-half.This gain is negated by the aging "Alfie" being selected at 12,where he has never performed well.I suppose we will see lots of macho running back inside.But making a man with his disciplinary record captain is crazy.
The logical back line for Wales is Hook , Henson, Shanklin.
Also need to bring on Mike Phillips if ,as I expect the pack is turned over again , as he plays like a fouth back row man.
Jenkins is again showing stubbornes in selection in ignoring Charvis.
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England are going through a 'transitional' period but still look 10 times better than Wales. As for Wales having the best backs in the 6N, I don't think many other countries (except Scotland) would swap theirs for the Welsh backs.
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hook will look just as bad as jones behind a pack that can't secure ball and is going backwards.
wales problems this year lie in a pack who haven't put up one decent performance all tournament.
englands problems in the games that they lost came from exactly the same place.
As an english man i'm hoping englands pack will play like last week and not like they did against the irish.
while wales serve up more of the same that will do me.
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162 is absoluetly right--we have to treat this as a way of measuring ourselves nagainst England. I can't see us winning, as however good our backs are their forwards are better, but i can see a repeat of RWC 03, with us scoring 3 tries to 1 and losing on penalties, telling us how far we have to go.
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Stephen Jones is probably Wales' best out half; it was only a couple of years ago that these message boards would have been filled with delirious Welsh fans, justifiably, hailing Jones as one of the best players in the world. But losing 4 games on the trot and looking awful in doing so, it really could be a blessing for the Welsh to see Hook at outside half.
Having said that, for the Welsh to stand any chance it is the pack that needs to perform; the Welsh backs will have very little impact on the game if their forwards keep on going backwards at the rate they have for the rest of the tournament.
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I think Stephen Jones has been a great servant of Wales and deserves to be recognised as such. However he is past his prime and James Hook offers us a fly half with the ability to vary his game and throw the opposition off balance.
Unfortunately in the centre partnership we have paired two like minded centres, big and brutal but not elusive. What we were crying out for was a contrast of say a Shanklin and Henson. I hope I am wrong but I am worried that Henson is a young victim of the same Welsh conservatism which never allowed Carwyn James to be accepted and recognised as the genius he was.
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must be fun pretending to know what you are talking about. have you even played rugby sean?
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no 166 as an irish fan i've always had a soft spot for the welsh annd admire their long rugby tradition but the fact is ronan o gara is a better player than stephen jones. even when o gara has had quiet games (which he'd admit himself) like against scotland, he still manages to bear up better under pressure than jones. this 6n being one example. altho we'll see at the munster scarlets game!no offence. as much as i'd like to see wales win this weekend, i fear england will win.
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After that man of the match performance I can safely say that yes Stephen Jones' injury was a blessing in disguise.
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emerald i guess you got it wrong cause wales won 27-18 against england with a superb hook who is givin hard work to jones to get back his number 10 shirt
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apologies to all here. i got it wrong- sorry! wales were very good agianst england! however there were moments when england did get back in the game a bit but the welsh victory was much deserved!hook was outstanding too!
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