Carter the unstoppable points machine (59)
- 4 Oct 07, 05:27 PM
Cardiff - We were left in no doubt as to the identity of the World Cup’s biggest star today. The peace and tranquillity of the Vale of Glamorgan country club was shattered by the sound of journalists on the hoof.
A sound not too dissimilar to the migration of the across the plains of East Africa. A thunderous stomping from one end of the designated interview room to the other.
The reason? One spiky-haired, fresh-faced, mild-mannered, extravagantly talented fly-half. There’s only one Dan Carter.
The list of genuine superstars in world sport is a short one. I give you , and . Dan Carter justifies his status as the pin-up boy of world rugby on every front.
At the tender age of 25 he’s been a fixture of the world’s best side for four years, tearing up the record books, and redefining the role of a modern-day fly half. Forget Jonny, now Carter is the benchmark.
Already he’s approaching the 700 point mark for the , with a prodigious try tally of 21 to his name. That’s more tries than any other fly-half in the history of New Zealand rugby.
Defensively he’s rock solid, he imposes his attacking game on the opposition, and he bosses a match like no one else. Just ask the Lions - 33 points in the 2nd Test in Wellington back in 2005 tells you all you need to know about Dan Carter.
So when the man himself shuffles towards you to impart his wisdom, ahead of the biggest match of his life, you wonder whether he is as naturally gifted a communicator as he is a rugby player.
Carter does not disappoint. In an era plagued by the bland and bored utterances of one-dimensional sportsmen who talk of one game at a time, at the end of the day, being fair, Carter is a shining beacon of light.
Considered, modest and articulate, he fixes his questioners squarely in the eye, and answers each of them with the confidence of a man very much at ease in his own body.
Yes, he understands the obsessional desire for the media to concentrate on his own powerful influence.
But no, he won’t take on by himself – his 14 mates will be helping him, and by the way, they won’t be waiting for him to “do something special”.
This is the , he says respectfully, the place where legends are made, and where true greats of the game stamp their indelible mark. It is clear he feels he can do just that.
Alastair Eykyn is a Radio 5 live reporter specialising in rugby union, tennis and hockey. He is covering Ireland at the World Cup and you can see 5 live's full broadcast schedule here.
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Saw the all blacks training today and they looked immense. Extraordinarily muscle-y. But Dan Carter didn't look 100%, like Graham Henry said. However, they certainly looked committed, even the players like Doug Howlett who isn't even in the initial 22
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I think Alastair fancy's him!!! Bizarre article!!
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couldn't agree more- like the other sporting superstars u listed he makes the game look easy. i can't wait to see the rest of his time will be like.
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first time poster. i`m irish but cant abide by the comment that carter is the benchmark ahead of wilkinson. wilkinson`s defence is second to none, and his reading of the game is far superior to carter. naturally carter stands out more with ball in hand due to the AB`s running game, but if it came to a drop goal or penalty in the last minute of a world cup final, i`d take wilkinson any day.
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You may take Wilko any day of the week, but I'd take Carter, for sure ;-)
Anyway...
Anyone else think he has telekinetic abilities? Just look at the pic...
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No one would dispute that Dan Carter is world class. And it is beyond peradventure that both Tiger Woods and Roger Federer are the greatest exponents ever of their respective sports. But Carter will need to win a World Cup Winner's medal and feature in another couple of Tri-Nations triumphs before he can enter the evergreen success league of Woods and Federer.
As regards Ronaldinho, he has never been as dominant as either Woods or Federer. It is universally acknowledged that he has passed the peak of his ability and that his performance in the 2006 World Cup in Germany was a disappointment.
The mark of 'greatness' is dependent, in substantial measure, on the ability of sportsmen and sportswomen to perform at the highest level over a lengthy period of time. Both Woods and Federer have been at the top for a long long time. Ronaldinho, on the other hand, has enjoyed a maximum of five years as a superb footballer. But, though he is still young, he is not delivering, in performance terms, these days. Zidane attained greatness (despite his sending off in the World Cup Final against Italy). Ronaldinho does not have Zidane's leadership skills.
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comment 4 botchan - face it carter is better than Wilkinson - get real please. Ok Wilkinson is good defensively but he breaks down as well as his body cannot take the strain anymore. Carter is good and looks better because he plays for the All blacks - however they both lack pace - Jonathan Davies was a superstar flyhalf not these two horses.
Anyway the real superstar in the ABs is thair captain and number 7 - he is the best rugby player in world rugby now and has been for a few years now --Mc Caw for president thats what I say!
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Johnny Wilk is past it mate. Carter is the bench mark now for a #10! This is based on his recent performances, ie the past 2-3 years. Johnny has not done anything since 2003,though injury has not helped.
Don't get me wrong, i think Wilkinson is a good player but he is no where near what he use to be and Dan Carter is a much more complete #10 than Wilkinson ever was.
To say that Carter can be compared with Tiger and Roger is not justified. Carter still has a lot to prove before he can mentioned with likes of Tiger and Roger.
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I have to agree that Dan Carter is the biggest star in the World Cup. He really does have it all, pace, skill, guile, strength and a strong winning mentality. As an avid All Blacks fan I am just worried that there is too much expectation on him going into the French game, especially if he is not 100% fit. Dont be surprised to see him being thumped by certain Mr Chabal!
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Carter's game looks majestic, but there again if Ronan O'Gara had played his world cup in the driving seat of the All-Black team, he would have looked majestic too, instead of a lost little boy.
No doubting Carter is very good, but real top class is shown by a stand-off whose team is not dominating the rest of the game.
Juan MartĂn Hernández anyone?
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Surely it should be "not dissimilar from the migration of the wildebeest", rather than dissimilar to...
What does "Considered" mean, in the sentence beginning, "Considered, modest and articulate...?
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Hernandez is the hotest one
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the fact that carter is playing with a fantastic AB side, while wilkinson is left to struggle with one of england`s worst ever teams does skewer the picture a little.how would carter fair with england? but how about a few facts? like the idea that JW`s done nothing lately. 24 points against samoa? plus
1)carter:7 WC games 80 pts, JW 12 games 222 points
2)JW has a WC winners medal.
3)JW can handle the most extreme pressure (last minute drop goal in WC final, given that carter has, i believe scored only 1 drop goal in his NZ career, he simply couldnt have pulled something like that off)
carter, or, less likely, hernandez, may well have become the benchmark for #10`s by the end of the WC, but for now carter still has to prove himself when it really counts, hence i would pick wilkinson over carter.
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Why doesn't the author have it done and propose to Dan carter already. Carter is a very good kicker. But it is much easier to play when you play for the ABs. Has anyone noticed, but the only aspect of the ABs game which suffers when Carter isn't playing is the goal kicking? His passing is good but his 'D' is not. He is surrounded by talent everywhere. And this applies to his Super 14 side and ANZ side.
If you want to look at a 10, look in Argentina or Australia (or even England).
Media creation.
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Listen to the All Blacks, whether talking ahead of the game, or courteously acknowledging their sponsors after the game, and you'll appreciate that Dan Carter is representative of everything professional about the Southern Hemisphere and their apporach to sport.
Whether it be McCaw, Smit, Gregan, Carter, Oliver.....whoever - they note the opposition with respect, acknowledge the team as a whole, and are rarely anything other than courteous and knowledgeable.
In response to Point 6, could you ever say that Tiger Woods was a great team player? Woods and Federer are both individual players playing in individual sports. Woods is renowned for his discomfort as part of a team, and Federer's Davis Cup history is almost 50% dependant on him due to the number in his team. Carter, like McCaw, Pele, Maradona, Michael Jordan and or Wayne Gretsky, is a massively influential player, playing in a purely team sport, and making a stand-out difference in a hugely successful team. Players like Pichot, Michalak and Wilkinson are big names in teams of average players. Carter is one of two stand-out names (along with McCaw) in a teamsheet crammed full of the worlds top players.
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Did any of you see Carters 60 second interview on sky rugby around 1-2 years ago ? When asked 'what are your pet hates?' He replied 'I quite like all pets actually' !!!!!!! Realising his mistake he put head in hands and said youre not going to include that are you.
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botchan 80... are you using the number of drop goals as a measure of how good a #10 is??? ye gods! how misguided can one get???
maybe whereas JW would have a pot at goal because he knows he has chaff outside him, DC will spread the ball because he knows he can lay something on for the fantastic nz outside backs.
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What are u on botchan 80? Wilko is past it and all he was ever good for was drop goals and penalties. He can get the ball wide and that's about it. Dan Carter is superior because he creates plays. He can make something out of nothing. Wilko waits for his forwards to set him up for a kick. That's all i've seen him do. I find WIlko one dimensional whereas Carter has all the goods. Sorry England but Carter is streets ahead of Wilko, always has been. If u lived down here you'd know what i'm talkin about.
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Botchan 80, I think you're forgetting that Carter played at the last World Cup primarily as a reserve; he was being groomed gradually at the time to become the next All Black fly-half, so those stats dont prove anything.
As for handling pressure, a drop goal is well within his capablities, but thankfully, his attacking prowess and skill means he generally wont have to resort to boring old Northern Hemisphere style rugby and kick drop goals and instead aim for the seven pointer. Lets face it, if somehow England upset Aussie in the quarters, they're gonna get an absolute hiding from the AB's in the semis.
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How can you say that a player needs to have proved himself at the highest level to be considered a great, and then maintain that he's not that good - it's just that he plays with a team that makes him look good? So you have to win a WC to be a great, but if it's on the back of a great team, it's not a valid statement of greatness...? Geez, I think Carter has just proved that he's a hell of a lot smarter than most people commenting here with his simple assessment that no one person will win a WC - it has to be a team effort. Which is the very reason it's not a good idea to compare him with those in individual pursuits such as Tiger and Federer, where the winning of championships is the only way to evaluate greatness. Teamsports defy comparison in this respect - if you had to win championships to be great, it would be impossible to have a great player in a half-pie team, which we all know is just not true. This doesn't mean of course that Carter isn't as great a sportsman as Tiger or Federer, just that it's wiser to compare apples with apples...
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dropgoals are "boring old nothern hemisphere tactics"? does the name Janni de Beer not mean ayhing to you?
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Dan Carter is the most complete #10 ever to play the game, JW is a great player but he has far from a complete game, doesnt look so good now with no Martin Johnson.
DC even looks good behind the Crusaders or Canterbury forward packs when they go backwards, as JW is now.
There is no arguement surely DC is the greatest ever #10.
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Dan Carter is without doubt the best #10 in the world. Johnny is a good player of course but going on all round ability, Dan has him beat easy. Sure Johnny can kick a winning drop goal but Dan doesnt need that in his game as the All Blacks will most likely be well ahead anyway. I cant stand the fact that the english especially go for drop goals like they are going out of fashion!!! To win the game, sure but it is such a gutless option. I say reduce drop goals to 1 point and penalties to 2 and it might encourage the players to go for tries. Just look at rugby league, you need tries to win the game therefore it is exciting. Dan Carter will kick the penalties if he is told but in the meantime, he is all about setting up the likes of Joe Rock ort Sivivatu. World cup is coming back to NZ!!!!
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I agree Carter is the best #10 now but in 4 years you will be talking about Stephen Brett who plays for Canterbury will be better than Dan is.
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comment 4 eugene - Jerry Collins is the best player in the world plus he's got the best 'do' to boot!! go JC!!
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Dan Carter has been out of form since returning to rugby this year bar two games (one being the decider against the wallabies). However even with this form he's still up there with the best #10's going around. The guy who is in the best form of all #10's is Nick Evan's but he can't get a run. How good is this all black squad!
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I think everyone forgot one big name for the all blacks...Carl Hayman!!
This guy is the rock on which that awesome machine is built upon.
In my mind, this guy has been the best in his position for a few years now.
He's my player of the year, without any shadow of a doubt.
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I do not agree with Chris - Dan Carter will, barring injury, still be the greatest number ten in the world in four years time.
Stephen Brett was exposed as New Zealand's latest flash in the pan media darling during last weekend's Ranfurley Shield challenge. Auckland identified and mercilessly expolited his defensive weaknesses and his inability to respond to pressure.
I agree with Mr Jones though. The All Blacks can still operate without Dan Carter. Losing Carl Hayman, however, would probably cost them the world cup.
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Post 24 has hit the nail on the head..As an Aucklander its hard to complement a cantabrian, but this guy has it all and one would suggest next year Dan Carter will be fighting very hard for his spot. As for JW a great player for sure but he will remain forever a one kick wonder, he wont do anything of substance again he is done, by the time Dan finishes his career this debate will be a forgone conclusion.
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If the Aussies get through (or rather when!) i would much prefer to play the All Blacks in the semi. They are more familiar to us than the French and we know how to beat them. It's often said that we're the only team that know how to beat them.(Actually beating them is another thing!)
France on home soil would be really hard and in the last 4 - 5 years they have beaten us well. So bring on England and Bring on New Zealand!
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Gents dont assume AB's will beat France so easily. Aus WILL beat Eng. SA WILL beat Fiji. Arg will beat Scots. AB vs France.....too close to call. Collins vs Sea Bass OUCH !!!!!
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There is no doubt that Dan Carter is a very talented 10, but this World Cup the star 10's have been Hernandez (easily the best 10 we have seen so far) and Nicky Little who managed a commanding performance against Wales in an erratic team.
Dan Carter gets attention because he is the 10 in a fantastic team, yet I doubt he is the first name to be put down on the AB's team sheet. Surely that should be one of the marks of greatness, 'Is the player indispensable'. The first two on the ABs sheet will be Hayman and McCaw, in that order, and of those I would say Hayman is the one who is indispensable.
Like Wilkinson, Carter gets more than his fair share of attention because he plays in a high profile position. If it comes to the greatest English player of the last 10 years Martin Johnson wins hands down.
For me, looking back over the last 10 years the outstanding 10 has be a certain Mr Larkham for Australia. He is the complete 10, he often plays behind a retreating pack and still keeps Australia moving forward. Even though I'm English I'll be very sorry to see such a talented and underated player retire.
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10man I assume you are a kiwi from the time of your post.
Carter hasn't won the World Cup yet!
Oh and for the comment of Carter being the best no 10 ever. I take it they don't show the Barry John try for the lions that often in New Zealand as it would give you all nightmares.
Rugby didn't just start in the year 2000.
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In referance to comment 31....ur jumping the gun abit, i agree that NZ will have their work cut out but to assume all the other games?! i bet goin into the last weekend you would have predicted wales beating fiji, or before the tournament for france to beat argentina on home soil
as for comment 29, JW will be a one kick wonder?! with 1000 international points to his name already and considering the countless injuries he's had over the past 3/4 years?! i dnt think that's something to be taken lightly, oh an he's the second all time highest points scorer in world cups, behind a certain mr Gavin Hastings
Now I know Carter is probably the benchmark...but it was only four years ago that jonny was the benchmark...a number 10 that got stuck in an tackling?! it jus didnt happen. So whilst Carter is the benchmark for No.10's at this time...there will be someone in 4 or 5 years time that again will set the benchmark.
JW will go down in history as a "one-kick wonder" or englands highest points scorer or whatever, he helped england to their first world cup, and yes he HELPED, he didnt single handedly win it.
But give it four years time till the next world cup...i wonder if we will still be saying that Dan Carter is the best number 10 this has graced this world....coz i would put money on him being up there....but maybe not quite there...
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does any one remeber the samoa game, wilkinson little grubber kick for Sackey! if carter had done it then Stuart Barnes would have hailed him as a genious! then the lovely jink then inside pass to sackey (sackey then went on and skined Tuelangy) then against Tonga the lovely cross kick to sackey! honestly the media should get out of the kiwis bed and open there eyes to what is going on on the pitch! carter has played two average games this tournament against poor opposition, which both have scored forward tries against the "powerful" all black pack. Wake up! Dan Carter is still living off a brilliant display against the Lions!
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No mention of Hernandez....Carter is a "great", no question, but what price on Hernandez being the player of the World Cup. What a player, what a team! No-one will fancy playing them, which is why we won't see them in the Six Nations.
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Just a note about Jannie De Beer(?). Boy, 5 drop goals a good team doth not make ! "Boring Northern Hemisphere tactics" usually are very effective . . . . when they play other "boring NH teams'.
France haven't been as boring and their results show the ups and downs of that style of play.
Carter . . . yeah, he's not too bad. It's the stable he's from that makes the difference. Canterbury have produced quite a number of #10's that are worthy of note. Wayne Smith, Andrew Merhtens, DC and now Stephen Brett. Do't worry, that list will go on and on. Larkham's a great player, too, and he's lasted a long time. Will the Wallabys be as good without him? Well, yes, unfortunately, but it may take a wee while to get there.
Personally, I've always thought that Nick Evans' parents should have checked out when to do the horizontal folk dancing, 'cos poor old Nick is never going to get the test match game time he deserves due to being in the DC era.
Should DC falter with an injury there will be no break in transmission with Nick Evans there to replace him. The AB's also have McAllister, Mauger and McDonald to replace him/them. Even poor old Piri Weepu, who couldn't be with us tonight, played #10 for the (WGTN) Lions this season and he can kick goals!
Enough from me, back to the Haka blog . . . . .
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Dan Carter is the best fly half in the world and has been for a few years now. In a head to head with Wilkinson Dan Carter would come out on top at the moment BUT you have to see it in the context of the team he's playing for..The ABs are generally on the front foot and give Carter a platform from which to show his skills. When Wilkinson was the best fly half in the world (2003RWC and before) England had an awesome pack and Wilkinson too had a platform from which to display his skills. Wilko has had a lot of injuries and is still getting back to where he was-Dan Carter has been free of major injury SO thge question is...if you put Wilko in the ABs side now, would he struggle? Porbably not. If you put Carter into the England side now, would he struggle? Yeah, he would find it harder. So...Dan Carter is playing better than Jonny at the moment but any team would take either of them if they could!
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Botchan 80
The comparison between Carter and Wilko regarding performances in their points haul. Have you actually looked at how the points were scored?
JW 222 - 1T, 23C, 45P, 12DG
DC 80 - 3T, 28C, 3P, 0DG
What does that tell you about the man and his position within the team? Carter sets up tries for his players and marshalls a game to victory. Wilko drops goals and kicks penalties. Who would you rather have on your team?
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I would have loved to have seen Carter versus Jonny when the latter was in his hayday. Nowadays Wilkinson has to play in a poor side and is often forced to play on the back foot. I would argue that Jonny circa 2003 was more influential on the pitch than DC 2007. That said Carter is probably the better player at the moment. He is certainly more interesting............
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jonny wilkinsons had his day, hes a battered old man now compared to carter and obviosly his body cant take the strain of top level rugby any more. not taking anything away from him in his younger days he was awesome and isnt half bad now but carter is awesome! some people say that this is only because he is playing in an amazing all blcks team, nonsense his vision and strategy are awesome and about his 1 drop goal, why would he need to score a drop goal when the whole team seem to score trys like they breath? drop goals are for getting out of tight spots at the end of a game with a very small score margin, 2003 world cup ring any bells? and people who are comparing him to the likes of jonathan davies and barry jon really need to join us in the 21st century the game is completely different now.
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You can't compare Wilko and Carter. They are both very different players but both good in there own right.
I would have to say that Carter is a much more complete 10 than Wilko ever was.
Northern Hem teams rely too much on there kicking game because they lack skills with the ball in hand. As a result, the southern hem teams are much more attractive to watch.
Watching most northern hem teams is like watching paint dry!
I hope that all the northern hem teams remaining in the world cup are knocked out this weekend so that we have some exciting rugby to watch over the last 2 weeks.
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I am a massive fan of Wilko, BUT having spent a year in Christhchurch, watching DC do his magic, week in week out, he is without doubt the best rugby player ever to have graced the game
Many will pour scorn on that fact but many will not have watched him play live. I can state that I have also watched many other greats live on regular occasions including JW, J Davies etc etc. And don't even go there on the Barry John etc. He was great but wouldn't even get in a national U21 side now.
There is no facet to DC's game that is weak. And you talk about pace - I was/am a huge fan of Jonathon Davies but DC could even beat him for pace
Sorry - but I agree
Signed - A very patriotic Englishman who has played at National level
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What a thread about great stand offs and no mention of Dan 'the boot' Parks? Er, well maybe not actually. On a serious note I think in 20 years time people will look back and unless DC has a defining moment (a la Johnnie) he won't be remembered as the all time great the media are trying to paint him as. Firstly he may well do this (within the next month possibly) and that will be that and secondly it isn't a necessarily a true reflection of greatness but at the end of the day history remembers winners, not 'lots of great breaks'.
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I feel personally that you are severely over rating Carter. Sure he is good but I would not put him anywhere near the same league as a Federer or a Woods, these guys have taken there sport to an all new peak of excellence that i just don't see in Carter. I have watched him in several tri nations games where he has been very average this season and tends to disappear out of games. He has also had a very easy ride thusfar in the World Cup against some below par opposition. Not even the best player in the World Cup. Has to be Hernandez of Argentina. Sublime skills with boot and ball in hand. Killer tactics and bravery in catching up and unders. Hernandez has to be best number 10 in the world at the moment.
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Though comparing greats from individual sports with greats from team sports is not, for the most part, a valid exercise, there is a unifying factor which characterises all great sportsmen (whether involved in individual or team sports). That is sustained brilliance over a lengthy period of time. Michael Jordan had it in a team sport called basketball. Woods and Federer are also consistently brilliant exponents of their respective sports.
Pele also achieved it over the space of numerous World Cups from 1958 in Sweden through to the iconic Mexico 1970 Tournament (which defined the parameters of a truly momentous international football competition). Maradona, despite his many personal flaws, also reached sublime heights during his playing career. As I said in my earlier post, Carter needs a World Cup Winner's medal (and possibly a couple of more Tri-Nations titles) before he can even to pursue greatness.
As regards the poster who compared Wilkinson's points scoring record to that of Carter, this is not a valid exercise. Wilkinson is nearing the end of his career and had a superb pack to back him up during the last World Cup. As another poster observed, Carter is really only getting to second base. He went to last World Cup as part of the squad. And he has only played twice in this tournament. Given the guy a chance to prove his ultimate greatness !
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DC is awesome and has a complete game. The AB's are about to shift up a few gears and show the world something special. Bring on the Frogs, hopefully the Poms, and then the Saffas. The cup is going down under
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carter is playing for the biggest scoring team in the world, of course he's going to score loads of points. his tries are all straigh run ins. the scotland game is a perfect example of the overhyped publicity surrounding him. he had a shocker, missed all his conversion and penalty attempts. consistently missed touch. then scored a simple jog in try and the commentators were purring. it's the same as the jonny wilkinson effect when he got all the credit for the work the england forwards were doing. by the nature of the position the best fly halves are always going to be slightly eratic and sometimes play shockers. o gara, michalak, hernandez, (hook in the future). hundreds of players can stand behind a good pack and play the basic percentages a la wilko and carter, other players have to really work hard and try and push the boundaries in order to gain an advantage. A skill i see very little of in wilko or carter
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oh well, all this over what quite obviously is a non argument. wilko is better, just look at te effect he has on a team of golden oldies! carter in same position wouldnt beable to cope. but i am sure all this bickering will end when france beat new zealand, lets face it southern hemisphere all you can do is insult the northern hemisphere sides, and still only play in a 3 nation championship.....so good arnt you, keep putting other sides down, and dont allow argentina in to your clique, not to mention tonga samoa etc etc....
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carter is playing for the biggest scoring team in the world, of course he's going to score loads of points. his tries are all straigh run ins. the scotland game is a perfect example of the overhyped publicity surrounding him. he had a shocker, missed all his conversion and penalty attempts. consistently missed touch. then scored a simple jog in try and the commentators were purring. it's the same as the jonny wilkinson effect when he got all the credit for the work the england forwards were doing. by the nature of the position the best fly halves are always going to be slightly eratic and sometimes play shockers. o gara, michalak, hernandez, (hook in the future). hundreds of players can stand behind a good pack and play the basic percentages a la wilko and carter, other players have to really work hard and try and push the boundaries in order to gain an advantage. A skill i see very little of in wilko or carter
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How many times have i heard that? Oh, four times actually; '91 '95 '99 '03. Can i suggest the Kiwis stop talking and just win the damn thing! I look forward to an Aussie vs NZ semi final.
As for Carter. No question that he is different class.
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Lots of comments regarding "complete fly-half" and the obligatory coo-ing of the AB fans about the magic and mastery of Dan Carter. Strange because Kiwis in general are very modest ... except when it comes to Rugby and above all "Southern Hemisphere Rugby" (like it's a different game in their minds and the minds of their bigger Aussie brother and their hated rivals the Saffas)
Personally I miss Carlos Spencer as at least he had some personality - Carter is a bit of a robot in my mind, albeit a nice guy to boot. I have marvelled at his 'grubber' kicks and how they magically always seem to bounce into the arms of a centre or winger breaking through - that is a pretty unique talent. And unquestionably his display against the Lions saw a lot of running trys and jinking in to touchdown. Well done Dan.
But let's return to both the "Southern Hemisphere" game and the "complete player". Rugby Union is a game with trys, conversions, penalties and drop-goals. However much drop-goals and penalties are seen as 'cheating' by Southern Hemisphere sports journalists, Kiwi & Aussie fans and down-under coaches they are NOT so, and are part of the game. Unquestionably England relied very heavily on controlling the game and winning through Wilkinson's ridiculously consistent goal kicking in 2003 (possibly even robotic I admit ; )
However this World Cup has seen a change. Firstly there has been the 4-try bonus up for grabs which has opened the game up a bit and yep those damn 'grubber' kicks that undid the Lions so readily and a few precise 'lofted kicks' into the arms of your wingers have also caught on with the rest of the World now. The ABs have had a bit longer to practice them, but, like controlling the game to win on penalties they are just another tactic.
England matched Australia try for try in the 2003 final (one a piece from both wingers - the traditional try-scorers!) so how delicious that the same winger for England would open the try-scoring in this world cup ... and what was the tactic to break open the play? A lofted kick by Olly Barkley into the arms of Jason Robinson. This has since been repeated by Wilkinson in subseqent games - whether lofted kick or grubber kick. And England with Sackey, Tait and Farrel have scored the kind of tries by playing rugby that England have consistenlty been accused of not playing e.g. Open, running, jinking, dodging Rugby. My big disappointment is that Dave Strettle isn't in the squad (through injury) as we'd have seen a lot more jinking and dodging and creative open play. So let's put to bed this rubbish about Southern Hemisphere Rugby vs Northern Hemisphere Rugby. There's one rugby and we're all playing it ... whether Tongans, Samoans, Feijoans (joke for Kiwis) and Argentinians. And yes whey isn't it the 6 nations down under with at least 3 of the aforementioned very worthy teams joingin the roster in the Tri-Nations!
In my mind the most "complete player" is the one who leads and inspires his side to victory. So Jonny has kicked more penalties and Dan's scored a few tries. The point is how you inspire and motivate your team from that pivotal position and it is without doubt that both DC and JW do indeed do that very thing ... as does Hernandez.
Personally i'd love to see a clash between NZ and England with both first 5/8ths (fly halves) at their peak so this can be settled once and for all. But I very much doubt I'll see that - for one thing it could well be a France v Aussie in the next round! And mark my words, that man Drew Morris will be causing havoc to any team he plays against. I first noticed him in 2005 Tri Nations and he gave the ABs a few scares then ... if England are undone then I'll bet my old rugby jockstrap that he'll be one of the leading architects. Nothing to do with Fly Halves.
Yours, English old-school Winger (Ret'd)
P.s. Lived in New Zealand for a couple of years and had to endure Kiwi media during the Lions Tour!
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Lots of comments regarding "complete fly-half" and the obligatory coo-ing of the AB fans about the magic and mastery of Dan Carter. Strange because Kiwis in general are very modest ... except when it comes to Rugby and above all "Southern Hemisphere Rugby" (like it's a different game in their minds and the minds of their bigger Aussie brother ...and their hated rivals the Saffas!)
Personally I miss Carlos Spencer as at least he had some personality - Carter is a bit of a robot in my mind, albeit a nice guy to boot. I have marvelled at his 'grubber' kicks and how they magically always seem to bounce into the arms of a centre or winger breaking through - that is a pretty unique talent. And unquestionably his display against the Lions saw a lot of running trys and jinking in to touchdown. Well done Dan.
But let's return to both the "Southern Hemisphere" game and the "complete player". Rugby Union is a game with trys, conversions, penalties and drop-goals. However much drop-goals and penalties are seen as 'cheating' by Southern Hemisphere sports journalists, Kiwi & Aussie fans and down-under coaches they are NOT so, and are part of the game. Unquestionably England relied very heavily on controlling the game and winning through Wilkinson's ridiculously consistent goal kicking in 2003 (possibly even robotic I admit ; )
However this World Cup has seen a change. Firstly there has been the 4-try bonus up for grabs which has opened the game up a bit and yep those damn 'grubber' kicks that undid the Lions so readily and a few precise 'lofted kicks' into the arms of your wingers have also caught on with the rest of the World now. The ABs have had a bit longer to practice them, but, like controlling the game to win on penalties they are just another tactic.
England matched Australia try for try in the 2003 final (one a piece from both wingers - the traditional try-scorers!) so how delicious that the same winger for England would open the try-scoring in this world cup ... and what was the tactic to break open the play? A lofted kick by Olly Barkley into the arms of Jason Robinson. This has since been repeated by Wilkinson in subsequent games - whether lofted kick or grubber kick. And England with Sackey, Tait and Farrel have scored the kind of tries by playing rugby that England have consistently been accused of not playing e.g. Open, running, jinking, dodging Rugby. My big disappointment is that Dave Strettle isn't in the squad (through injury) as we'd have seen a lot more jinking and dodging and creative open play. So let's put to bed this rubbish about Southern Hemisphere Rugby vs Northern Hemisphere Rugby. There's one rugby and we're all playing it ... whether Tongans, Samoans, Feijoans (joke for Kiwis) and Argentinians. And yes whey isn't it the 6 nations down under with at least 3 of the aforementioned very worthy teams joinign the roster in the Tri-Nations!
In my mind the most "complete player" is the one who leads and inspires his side to victory. So Jonny has kicked more penalties and Dan's scored a few tries. The point is how you inspire and motivate your team from that pivotal position and it is without doubt that both DC and JW do indeed do that very thing ... as does Hernandez.
Personally I'd love to see a clash between NZ and England with both first 5/8ths (fly halves) at their peak so this can be settled once and for all. But I very much doubt I'll see that - for one thing it could well be a France v Aussie in the next round! And mark my words, that man Drew Morris will be causing havoc to any team he plays against. I first noticed him in 2005 Tri Nations and he gave the ABs a few scares then ... if England are undone then I'll bet my old rugby jockstrap that he'll be one of the leading architects. Nothing to do with Fly Halves.
Yours, English old-school Winger (Ret'd)
P.s. Lived in New Zealand for a couple of years and had to endure Kiwi media during the Lions Tour!
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Lots of comments regarding "complete fly-half" and the obligatory coo-ing of the AB fans about the magic and mastery of Dan Carter. Strange because Kiwis in general are very modest ... except when it comes to Rugby and above all "Southern Hemisphere Rugby" (like it's a different game in their minds and the minds of their bigger Aussie brother and their hated rivals the Saffas)
Personally I miss Carlos Spencer as at least he had some personality - Carter is a bit of a robot in my mind, albeit a nice guy to boot. I have marvelled at his 'grubber' kicks and how they magically always seem to bounce into the arms of a centre or winger breaking through - that is a pretty unique talent. And unquestionably his display against the Lions saw a lot of running trys and jinking in to touchdown. Well done Dan.
But let's return to both the "Southern Hemisphere" game and the "complete player". Rugby Union is a game with trys, conversions, penalties and drop-goals. However much drop-goals and penalties are seen as 'cheating' by Southern Hemisphere sports journalists, Kiwi & Aussie fans and down-under coaches they are NOT so, and are part of the game. Unquestionably England relied very heavily on controlling the game and winning through Wilkinson's ridiculously consistent goal kicking in 2003 (possibly even robotic I admit ; )
However this World Cup has seen a change. Firstly there has been the 4-try bonus up for grabs which has opened the game up a bit and yep those damn 'grubber' kicks that undid the Lions so readily and a few precise 'lofted kicks' into the arms of your wingers have also caught on with the rest of the World now. The ABs have had a bit longer to practice them, but, like controlling the game to win on penalties they are just another tactic.
England matched Australia try for try in the 2003 final (one a piece from both wingers - the traditional try-scorers!) so how delicious that the same winger for England would open the try-scoring in this world cup ... and what was the tactic to break open the play? A lofted kick by Olly Barkley into the arms of Jason Robinson. This has since been repeated by Wilkinson in subseqent games - whether lofted kick or grubber kick. And England with Sackey, Tait and Farrel have scored the kind of tries by playing rugby that England have consistenlty been accused of not playing e.g. Open, running, jinking, dodging Rugby. My big disappointment is that Dave Strettle isn't in the squad (through injury) as we'd have seen a lot more jinking and dodging and creative open play. So let's put to bed this rubbish about Southern Hemisphere Rugby vs Northern Hemisphere Rugby. There's one rugby and we're all playing it ... whether Tongans, Samoans, Feijoans (joke for Kiwis) and Argentinians. And yes whey isn't it the 6 nations down under with at least 3 of the aforementioned very worthy teams joingin the roster in the Tri-Nations!
In my mind the most "complete player" is the one who leads and inspires his side to victory. So Jonny has kicked more penalties and Dan's scored a few tries. The point is how you inspire and motivate your team from that pivotal position and it is without doubt that both DC and JW do indeed do that very thing ... as does Hernandez.
Personally i'd love to see a clash between NZ and England with both first 5/8ths (fly halves) at their peak so this can be settled once and for all. But I very much doubt I'll see that - for one thing it could well be a France v Aussie in the next round! And mark my words, that man Drew Morris will be causing havoc to any team he plays against. I first noticed him in 2005 Tri Nations and he gave the ABs a few scares then ... if England are undone then I'll bet my old rugby jockstrap that he'll be one of the leading architects. Nothing to do with Fly Halves.
So if you see Mr Morris in Marseille - buy him a Pastis. Actually buy him several and we can hope he never gets off the bench!
Yours, English old-school Winger (Ret'd)
P.s. Lived in New Zealand for a couple of years and had to endure Kiwi media during the Lions Tour!
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I'd rather have Chris Patterson kicking any day! No complaining about the ball - just gets up and gets on with it!
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Chris Patterson cant play rugby tho. Hes a great kicker no doubt about that. He played on the wing against wales in the six nations and got caught by stephen jones!!
Jonny Wilkinson is a great player and him and Carter's goal kicking accuracy average is around 80% which shows theres not much diference there. Drop goal is a weapon Wilkinson has over Carter. But theres no one here who can surely think hes a better runner with the ball in hand. Hes faster, stronger, bigger (taller and heavier) and seems to react to everything he sees in front of him, which all great 10's do, as does Wilkinson but not as good as Carter. Everyone says Carter's defence aint as good as wilko's but Carter's a solid defender and makes up a lot of recovery tackles, wilkinson thrives on big hits.
Jonny Wilkinson brought a new level to the game in 2003, but Dan Carter, the modest canterbury man has brought an even higher level to the number 10 jersey now. If the ab's succeed at the end of this tournament im sure he will be a pivotal figure in that success!
And another thing, cant remeber who said above. But something about Northern Hemisphere teams are boring? everyone automatically assumes England in the northern hemisphere, they must do. Look at Wales!! They play some of the most exiting rugby, i know there out now, but surely they can not be classified as a boring team to watch. Wales v Fiji is the best game of the world cup so far, might even be at the end of it all!
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I will admit that Dan Carter is a great player.He is however not the greatest flyhalf of all time as many in the kiwi media portray him. (im a pom living in auckland).He is a good player in a great team.The best flyhalf i have ever seen play was Jonny Wilkinson. I will probably be critised like many others for stating tht jonny is better than dan.the truth is that he is.they both have strenths an weaknesses. carter is a far better runner of the ball whole jonnys defence is better. However jonny is far superior in terms of leadership and aura.on this very website there are articles like the australian one sayin the aussies are wary of the wilkinson factor.u dont find any articles sayin teams are wary of the carter factor.when wilkinson plays the whole england team changes.The confidence of the players increases by just ahvin him in the team.Jonny is a leader who pulls his team out of trouble. he is aplyers who commands respect form all other players and who inspires an leads his team. carter is nowhere near wilko in terms of prescence and leadership and thts wat makes jonny better.
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'Tom Go Wallabies!' (post #30) must be feeling a bit of a fool now. 'When' the Australians go through? As a Welshman, I was amazed that we weren't able to pressure the Australian forwards more at scrum time, and today's match proved just how ineffective Australia are in the tight.
Matt Dunning, Guy Shepherdson and Al Baxter. Three Australian props, none of whom would pass their MOT (dodgy reverse lights....)
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Ahem. that's Dan Carter the STOPPABLE points machine.
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