Ha
Would you do me a favour? Would you listen and look out in future for politicians calling for a "debate" on an issue? It's sometimes an "honest debate" or an "open debate" or sometimes and "open and honest debate".
All of that is fine. But what we often find in the radio game, is that when we telephone the said politicians and ask them to come on the air and debate the issues (in an open and/or honest way) they won't engage with other politicians. This is not always the case, but very often. I wonder why?
By the way, I'm told it will soon be possible for me to update this Blog when I'm not in the office.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahaha.
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"honest debate" - this is the bad news, shut up.
"open debate" - I'm telling you what will happen, shut up.
Stephen
Howsabout, "Clearly, they are wearing off" ?
Lissa (with an A) hasn't put up my last post yet, will this one do?
Ref unposted post - I'll get back to my weeds now.
re Sue-Sue's posting yesterday (no. 91) about the "pearls of wisdom" at the top of the page...I spent quite a few tedious hours html coding about 50 of the best entries earlier in the week so hopefully they are now rotating on a daily basis. Though obviously I'm a coding novice as there's a weird question mark in front of today's quote by Kate O'Mara. Bob Thedino is just a lucky man. Hella had hers running for 2 days too. Can't remember if yours is in the queue. Feel free to resend. It's a subjective lottery.
hm, this raises an interesting point.
What is the best way (in a short space of time) to create an understanding of an issue?
I mean, is it best to debate? Or perhaps a monologue (like the Reith lectures) are more successful in allowing an audience to understand the issue. Or maybe "inquisition" (like the Moral Maze).
If this is all too serious then I'll simply say why we like Eddie so much. He's very good at "gently probing" his guests.
but feel free to suggest that 2 people debating might not be actually that 'successful'.
Wouldn't-it-be-fun-if-we-could-stretch-the-post-beyond-the-grey-box-like-Eddie-has-with-his-ha's-except-that--all-of-this-pineapple
Shoot him! No, cut his b*lls off, /then/ shoot him!!
I think this needs a bit of perspective. It was an atrocious challenge and should have been red-carded. If Mendes had bounced onto the turf, jumped up and chinned Thatcher, I doubt it would have got this reaction - yet if the same challenge was made a dozen time, that would be the most likely outcome each time. I don't really buy this "outraged of Manchester" response.
Oops! I think I've got my lists confused. I wonder what I just sent to the Man City site...
A little less conversation, a little more action please....!
Good effort, though, andycraxx!
Could we have an open and honest debate with Eddie and complain about his post? Why - no not why HOW does he manage to write his e-mails in elongated landscape style?
This question will be asked repeatedly until an honest answer is received.
I, too, am having HTML/browser problems - try my long post on Firefox (gets castrated) and IE (gets wrapped).
"It seems there are now more than 60 million people in the UK. It's official. We were wondering if there's anywhere you'd recommend for a bit of peace and quiet. Where do YOU go when you want to be away from people?"
Well, this is interesting. Given the number of people contributing to these blog comments, and an overall population of 60 million, I think that "the PM blog" is about as good as it gets for a bit of peace and quiet.
And that eminem lyric about "which spice girl to impregnate" will never sound the same again.
Peace?
Quiet?
I should be out, doing useful things for the world. Instead I'm here pressing Control-R every 30 seconds.
Amazingly enough, the place where I find peace and quiet (or, at least, time to myself) is on the bus to and from work. Unless I meet (and am obliged to chat to) someone I know, this is the perfect place for me to keep myself to myself and think profound thoughts (well truthfully I usually read Metro), but you get the picture!
At the risk of sounding like a Grumpy Old Woman - the Case of the Disappearing Texts raises its head again. My post at No 2 makes no sense, since Stephen's (which I KNOW I didn't imagine), has gone off somewhere.......It was definitely the first post when I first looked???
Help!
Can I just follow up all this talk about html coding, and also Frances' O-so-close effort last night. I know there's a danger of sucking grandmother's eggs, or whatever, but in the quest of equality in blog commenting, these might help:
(I hope this works - because I'm going to look very silly if it doesn't)
<b>text</b> = text
<i>text</i> = text
I'm sure there are others, but tables and images don't work.
I'm hurt >sob<
I posted ages ago and it has clearly disappeared, or so Valery's comment (13) implies.
I know it wasn't that funny, but I didn't think we were being censored for poor humour (cf most other entries)
Plus, I was No 1. This doesn't happen to me often.
I think I'll go hide in my quiet place and cry!
Yes, definitely missing comments today. I'm still willing to believe the interrupted database blah, blah, blah explanation but some of the posts seem to be missing completely.
Perhaps Lissa is displaying her "power over the plebs" side.
Aw * hugs Stephen*
I'm always away from my desk when this kicks off so I rarely get anywhere near the head of the queue anyway.
Anyway, I blame the server - or the webmaster. Whichever can't get back at me.
I should probably have said this before I called Lissa personality into question, but I think it would be helpful to have some sort of statement on whether posts can be or are deleted (and in what circumstances - e.g. a complaint) and when they can be or are deleted. If I'd managed to post first (Stephen - currently 15), I'd probably be re-writing my CV now. And, quite honestly, after yesterday, I can see Valery (13) reaching for the pills. Do you think the ±«Óătv could be liable in the event of minor, or not so minor, personality disorders?
Stephen
I'm so glad you are not a figment of my fevered imagination! With my pedant's hat pulled firmly on I feel I must also point out that John H's (Hi John) comment on Mendes, immediately prior to No 5 has also slithered away - making his No 6 look as unnecessary as my No 2 - WAIT A COTTONPICKiNG MINUTE THAT'S GONE NOW TOO!
Grrrrrrrr
Just got the newsletter.
Eddie, are you going to be interviewing Gaston Hochar? Quality!
(The sediment is challenging though).
Honest Debate and Open Debate are empty words in America. It will only happen in America when the Libertarians and Greens are allowed to participate in Debates in US Elections.
I need to make some lunch. But before I do, I'd just like to say something about the "debate" subject. Obviously, Ernie is in the media business and so for him having access to politicians is an important subject (although I admit to trying desperately to keep the idea of his "gentle probing" out of mind) - even if the degree to which their appearing on PM actually contributes to such a debate is limited. Then there is the nature of "debating" itself. Two people could indeed appear to give their views but is it the one making the most sense who necessarily "wins" in such situations? Or is it the one with the smoothest tone and the silkiest tongue?
Anybody who listens in to R4 and watches Newsnight will know that not all experts are equal (and I'm not just talking about the poor chap who turned up for an interview for an IT job). Quite honestly, some people do not have the right to be given air time on such prestigious media platforms. I know this is a tricky subject - Tony Benn tried to tackle it on his telly box prog the other day - but if you put up one person who is genuinely knowledgeable about their subject and another who is more eloquent but is essentially griding an axe, then I personally believe that you detract from the sum of human knowledge.
I think that the attitude of challenging people who "think they know better" is an important one. However, in some circumstances, we should accept that some people do know better and argument should move onto what we should do about it.
I'm really hungry now.
Aw shucks yes - definite personality disorder encroaching. A mere two days into Blogworld and I have already deteriorated into a capital letter using saddo.
Apologies to all concerned, but in all seriousness (well some seriousness), I really don't know how this whole World works and perhaps we could be told if it's supposed to be a kind of moveable feast rather than a permanent record.
Well done again Stephen for being No 1, I saw you.
My best Peace and Quiet moments are when I'm walking the dog (thought it about time I actually commented on Eric's Blog!) Is that too dull?
Pluto has been stripped of its planet status, I have been dumped from number one, and Eddie has been word-wrapped.
I'm making Pluto my quiet place and going there now; Eddie, if you are reading this rather than working, you are welcome to join me.
Just need to dig out eight records, a book and a luxury...
On the matter of peace and quiet,
It looks pretty peaceful
here
at the moment....
and it's OK as well.
xx
ed
I really do wonder quite how far we can get off the subject...
On a completely different note, I wonder does text work on here?
Hey up! If this continues, Stephen could well make it back up to number 1 before the end of the day. The world is at war. The people have lost faith in their politicians. And we're discussing the ephemeral nature of blog comments. I do think it's important to look after the little things!
Sorry Stephen, I had no idea my posting would knock yours of the no 1 stop and replace it. And I saw your after I'd posted but before mine was cens^H^H^H^H moderated.
What happened? I think we should be told.
I also notice Eddie's long hahahaha has now wrapped a couple of times. And the ? before the quote of the day has changed...
RE MISSING COMMENTS...I have investigated and indeed there are some missing. I've found them and am trying to sort out why they've not been posted. Apologies. To explain, the blog is post moderated by an external company which should only censor offensive material. I do have the power to override the system but being the cautious type I have passed the buck and will come back to you. Power to the plebs.
re HTML CODING Tony the Coder tells me that the HTML coding I needed to put 3 dots ahead of Kate's caption is "& # 8 2 3 0 ;". You learn something everyday. My life is richer.
Lissa re your comment today (no 2), your tedious hours appear to have been unsuccessful as it's Kate's pearl of wisdom (I presume it's the sultry one!) feayured every day so far now! More coding required no doubt!
>>>>> multi-layered, multi-textured, multi-coloured swap shop and multi-cultural honest and open debate is exactly what we need lets have Glenda Jackson and Michael Portillo for starters on the poor standard of this blog
Did anybody else notice the way Lissa just called us all "plebs"?
John W
I do not blame you for my missing post. And at least you made comment on the blog subject. I promise not to declare war on you, or anyone else for removing me from the top. Stephen's Republic Of Pluto (SROP) is a peaceful nation.
BTW, does anyone know how to light a fire in a zero oxygen atmosphere. It's darned cold on the edge of the Solar System
Stephen, if, in the spirit of this blog, you rename your republic "Stephen's Technocratic Republic of Pluto" you can be STROP.
I have the strap-line changing with the calendar day, not with the latest Blog entry from Eric. I found that a little confusing to start with.
"plebs"... why not get Eddie to call us all plebs on air? Eg - at five-thirty-eight "and for all the Plebs on the Blog, the FTSE index is (up/down).... and again at five-forty-one...and again at.........
Plebs? I demand an explanation, and an apology. Plebs??? That's not nice, I might complain about that post.
I've found a definition :
"the plebeians were ... disallowed intermarriage".
Maybe that's a good idea ....
Lissa noted
"the blog is post moderated by an external company which should only censor offensive material."
Need I mention that it's an American company?
xx
ed
We have a new photo! I am, again, the first to comment on it. I am, actually, the only one who has commented on the first two.
One very important question that's been bugging me since I read Eddies' newsletter.... If the show's going to be "multi-layered, multi-textured, multi-coloured swap shop ", does this mean that Posh Paws will be in the studio? It would be worth seeing that on the web-cam!
As for the more serious topic raised by the blog, it always seems that any attempt to have a discussion with a political figure about the intricacies of some topic in public is wasted. The natural reaction of a politician when asked a question is to come back with "That's not the question. The real question is...." or "While that's a valid point, I would say that it's impossible to discuss this without talking about...." and then they go off at a complete tangent to say what they wanted to say in the first place. It's no wonder that turn-out at elections has declined continuously. The public have just got fed up with soundbites, posturing, etc....
Valery (no point in giving the number): "I'm so glad you are not a figment of my fevered imagination! With my pedant's hat pulled firmly on I feel I must also point out that John H's (Hi John) comment on Mendes, immediately prior to No 5 has also slithered away - making his No 6 look as unnecessary as my No 2 - WAIT A COTTONPICKiNG MINUTE THAT'S GONE NOW TOO!"
Priceless!
No probs, Stephen.
Easy to get a flame there on the newly-defined dwarf planet Pluto, but take your own oxygen. Pipe the (e.g. natural) gas and oxygen (from a tank) together and light the flame where the gases meet - just like a welding torch.
So is Pluto's companion Chiron a dwarf planet (it's similar in size to Pluto), or a moon, or what do you call the satellite of a dwarf planet? Perhaps we should have an open and honest debate about it.
My post never made it. Must thave been due to defamation of character concerning that of Ruth 'Wonder Boy' Kelly and her 'open and honest' debate, neither of which criteria I would associate her with. I have been moderated.
"Comments are moderated, and will not appear on this weblog until the author has approved them."
If I am the author of my comment and am also the person who approves of the comment simply because I approve of my own writing, have I therefore at the same time moderated it? If so you have my permission to post it.
We, the inhabitants of STROP, have decided to call all satellites "Jim".
I am prepared to have an Honest and Open debate on this, as long as I don't have to debate it wih anyone else.
Anyway, according to my Politicians Dictionary
Debate
Discussion leading to a forgone conclusion
Honest
Revealing anything that is already known
Open
Revealing anything that might be found out another way
39 - The point made by Fearless Fred is why Newsnight and Question Time really does annoy me. Sitting there watching as politicians bat questions away is not why they were put into government (by the minority, according to figures on turnout). I am so disenchanted with the way my country is run at present. It may as well go back to being a feudal system, except instead of lords and kings we should just bow down before the corporates and their little jesters, the politicians. After all, in the House of Commons, they are pretty funny with their japes and larks but achieve little, choosing to shy away from the big issues and score points...
re RESCUED COMMENTS...Hurrah. I've found them and someone more technically competent that me is going to republish them. Apologies to John H, Valerie, Stephen etc. etc. I think our moderators have been a bit over-enthusiatic. Bear with us.
44, very much like that post, seems to be a rather accurate summary...
PLEB = Person Longing for Ephemeral Blogs
PLUTO = Pleb's Least Used Tourist Office
BTW, if you want to start a fire without oxygen, you can use chlorine.
Not sure that information will help, but at least you learned something new !
Tim.C
If you think about it, politicians are in a bit of a pickle really. Stephen's definitions of "honest" and "open" got me thinking. (I suspect this is going to be multi-layered, so forgive me if it doesn't make any sense.) We seem to have shifted from a reasonably healthy "sceptical" view of politics to a rather less healthy "cynical" view. And as a society we don't like unpalatable information. The whole "alleged terror threat" thing is a case in point - the "authorities" seem to have done a useful job in dealing with a threat but within days of the measures they take to deal with it being introduced, the boss of one airline is all over the show saying the measures are ridiculous. How do you actually deal with a situation like that? So many of the subjects of "open" and/or "honest" debates reduce to "damned if you do/damned if you don't" issues where the politicians involved recognise that whatever they say, people will complain. Often the same people, complaining about all of the possible resulting positions.
Has STROP developed an immigration policy yet?
Wow
Entries are reappearing. Well done Lissa.
Number one here I come.
I'm keeping Pluto mind
Following on from Tim C ...or hydrogen peroxide, or (in a treated form) sugar can be used in lieu of oxygen. They've both been used as the oxidant for British rockets - H2O2 put Properio into orbit, and the sugar rockets are - or possibly were - for amateur rocket attempts (sponsored by Tate & Lyle).
Come to think of it, your oxygen will have condensed out there on Pluto, so it's not that bulky, and you'll see it's a pretty blue liquid, but when you light the blue touch paper it goes up at a rate that makes houses on fire look pedestrian.
Hum... just found that you cannot use the relivent html to change the colour of the text, that last paragraph was meant to be in liquid oxygen blue.
STROP Immigration Policy
Anyone is welcome
Unless, of course, I don't like the colour of their shoes.
Or they're a politician.
I find it hilarious that in the space of a few days we seem to have discovered that this blog technology is cramping our creativity. Perhaps STROP could have a nice liquid oxygen blue flag?
Hear the story about what the native American said onto a tape that was to go to the moon with US astronauts.
It was a message for the men on the moon: "Watch your immigration policy"
I would like a definiton of mulitcultural. I used to think it meant, 'many cultures living in harmony', but, like Stephen Fry says, "All language is organic".
Hydrogen Peroxide is cheating as it is still oxygen that does the burning.
Sorry, that's all I have to offer at the moment - post job interview headache getting to me !
Tim.C
re ROTATING CAPTIONS...Sue, I promise they are now changing every weekday at midnight. Val Hamblin's had her ""When news breaks, we fix it" up this week.
Someone stay up and check and prove me wrong.
PS We're leaving the weekends blank.
Okay, I've finally got home... Tell me, has Eddie announced the FTSE yet???
Starting your own country, whether it be on Pluto or elsewhere .... guidelines are being re-run on TV at the moment.
is being repeated
Wikipedia already updated on Pluto planetary status
Damn fine thing this internet ;)
All language is organic? Approved by the Soil Association then.
John H,
Politicians don't debate anything. They say what they want, then piss off.
I had another letter in The Indy today.
Sorry, approved by the Composting Association.
What is it with the word interdict which was somewhat overused today.
Can someone fill me in on its intended meaning?
The PM Blog - slightly better than Radio Tay.
Although I posited that debate might not be the best way of getting an issue understood (thanks to x for developing the issues) there are other reasons we still should have politicians (or anyone) on radio etc.
That is to explain why they have made decisions, what they are doing etc. Which isn't debate, but is vital for accountability.
I also think its up to us (the electorate) to treat politicians with maturity ie no, they're not all mad, they do work hard, they actually went into politics to 'change' things and as a public service, they're not all corrupt - few are. Honest, these people are smart and would earn FAR more in the private sector.
However if we believe they are venal idiots then it'll become a self fulfilling truth.
maybe it has. if so, its up to us to change that the next time we vote.
right, onto other things.
Pluto is now a Dwarf.
I just lost a bet on this as I thought it was Mickey's dog and had nothing to do with Snow White...
Lame I know.
(no, not pluto... oh god....)
What will they do with the bit of music added to Holst's Planets to represent Pluto?
John Justice,
The PM Blog - Not quite as good as Milk Tray.
"All because the lady loves ... PM"
not that I believe anything should be "off topic" but maybe we should email the suggestions for the revolving strap rather than blog them. Poor Lissa now has to check 2 sources of stuff. As well as do her job.
Not being heavy handed or anything, its just that:
"PM - an excuse for a blog" sprang to mind...
I just used the words "revolving strap" and its doing for me what "bikini" did in a previous blog...
Strap suggestion for Lissa:
PM. It's just before tea.
John H - ,>thanks! hmm (htmmmml??), that looks better. My protocol's a bit rusty
Thanks Lissa (49), congratulations on persistence, I may just re-appear again tomorrow too. Keep up the gr8 work. Btw what with post monitoring, I never did get around to the weeds - but I did walk Pluto, and enjoyed the P & Q.
Not quite priceless John H (43) as the post rescued post posts probably won't make sense now...
Light Liquid Oxygen Blue touch paper and retire - I'm off to the Edinburgh Festival - slainte!
Did I hear someone had sent an email ref Pluto and the Planets Suite by Holst? Don't you know that the Planets Suite predated the suite (composed in 1916 - Pluto discovered in 1930) and hence Pluto was not included and even after it had been discovered Holst did not want it included. More recently, in 2000 a piece was written for Pluto by Colin Matthews - but I guess they'll have to ditch that now - how right Holst was then. (tks to Wikipedia for some of that)
I heard that; perhaps PM should have run that email past radio 3 before getting Eddie to read it out.
But here's a point. That was emailed in. No-one here in blogsphere saw it. This blog seems to be a bit of a side-line, compared to those who "go direct" by email. I've not heard Eddie quote anything from the blog yet. Indeed, apart from writing the opening entry, does he read it? Or does Lissa have a direct line to feed pertenant or amusing comments to him to broadcast?
On the first ever blog Eddie read out my comment (Day One #140).
I just assumed all your later comments just went worthy ;-)
Tim.C
(He also read out #145 by someone who I don't think ever poseted again - these just for the fame bloggers!)
I like this blog but won't it confirm the British stereotype for eccentricity in those abroad. Do we care, have we ever, well, maybe not.
In the spirit of being open and honest, have you noticed that the bold dates are eccentric on the calendar?
Click on the 21st but try not all to do it at the same time
Don't change it Lissa, it adds to the ambience
Now that I have blogged for the first time, will the world ever be the same for me?
Mr Mair. Eddie?
One Mr. Innes Smith of the comedy ensemble the Franz Kafka Big Band has announced on his blog an urgent desire to LICK YOUR FACE.
Now, a good many people would be thrilled at such an offer from a rather erudite and handsome comedian. I suggest you investigate further at
Take a handkerchief with you - it could all get very sloppy.
Lissa - (60) The caption isnât rotating, but it does appear to have changed. (4) âI spent quite a few tedious hours html coding about 50 of the best entries earlier in the weekâ. Perhaps it should have been 51, as âintelligenstiaâ seems to have crept in - unless Helena was making an incredibly clever commentary that Iâve missed.
Ă»ć±đ°ù
Iâd like to complain about the fact that some of what I just wrote makes no sense. Unless you assume that I read it as â50 hoursâ, or something.
Batista
Does this work like the audience participation bits in a pantomime?
Do we have to shout something out when we hear the words "open and honest debate"?
Even though it's fairly late in the proceedings, I think it would be criminal not to introduce the hackneyed old "mass debate", "joke" into the proceedings.
Sorry.
I'll get me coat.
Oh yes, the Pluto/Charon thing: this counts as a double planet because both objects orbit around a point in the space between them. Compare this to the earth/moon system where the moon orbits a point located somewhere below the earth's surface.
So, the former case has both orbiting a common centre, while the latter has one orbiting the other.. The size is kind of incidental.
Andy,
Yes, I mentioned The Planets by Holst in post 70. I also said that Pluto had been added to it.
If you participate in enough forums/fora you will discover that there are always pedants who will Google something and then try to amaze you with their vast amount of knowledge. Names supplied.
If you participate in enough forums/fora you will discover that there are always pedants who will Google something and then try to amaze you with their vast amount of knowledge. Names supplied.
Well, alright, I say double planet, but you know, what with astromers (or at least the 10% of the IAU conference who voted to demote Pluto) being they way they are, planet's not quite the right description. How about 'freezing cold lump of rock that no one would give a flying nadger about if it didn't have an interesting name'. does that cover it?
There should be two categories of planets:
(1) those named after ancient gods and
(2) those named after Disney characters.
To reflect the changing face of Hollywood animation, perhaps all new solar system bodies could be named after Pixar (now part of Disney, I think) characters. It would be great, we could have new dwarf planets called "Mr Incredible", "Buzz Lightyear" and (personally, my favourite) "Mr Potato Head".
Darren Stephens (89) - do you mind! That's my new home world you are insulting.
"38. At 03:26 PM on 24 Aug 2006, John W wrote:
I have the strap-line changing with the calendar day, not with the latest Blog entry from Eric. "
Whether it is your reference to "changing" I know not, but (as I type) the exquisite Mr. Muir is featured in a delightful strapless number.
It may be something to do with the arrival of midnight, so I'm going to have a look behind the pc to see if there's a glass slipper.
Come to think ... the cat is behaving skittishly.