±«Óãtv

The real issue that will come back to haunt the government is the inequity in the higher level of pay increases given to Scotland compared with England.

The police can't strike... but I wonder what would happen if 100,000 police officers decided to hand in their resignations all at once.

I doubt they will, most police officers have a conscience and a sense of duty and honour... not something that can be said for labour ministers.

Inflation worries be blowed.

Greedy Gordon will simply tell Dodgy Debt Darling how he slashed inflation; omit numbers you dont want.

If you accept the police are a special case and that it only involves £40 million then the government are talking nonsense about inflationary pressures in comparison to billions of public borrowing, debt and the public budget of over £500,000 million. It is not as if this government doesn't waste billions in superfluous projects that could be directed to the police instead.

Another dirty trick this government have played, whats the point of going to arbitration in the first place?

Just what can the police do with their hands tied behind their backs, I don't blame them for striking legally or illegally... who's going to lock them up and where anyway? They are faced with knives, guns and maniacs on the street.... would you want the job?

This government wouldn't think twice if it was their pay, so next time on Mr Beans walk about sod em' just phone in unwell.

What 67 questions?

Nick,
Since when did the leader of the opposition have 67 questions to ask? Do PMQ's now last all day?!

The police are a notorious vested interest group.

Just like MP's, in fact.

The elephant in the room is the ever more yawning gap between the public and private sectors, which this dispute is a symptom of.

In a decade or so, there will be clear blue water between pensioners who worked in the public and private sectors.

The public sector retirees will be relatively well off and the private sector retirees will mostly be struggling.

Is that the sort of English society we want, because that is where it is now heading.

"* And note the deafening silence of the Tories. David Cameron did not use any of his 67 questions at PMQs today to raise the police's plight"

Two points:
a) PMQs must have taken all day, then. Was the broadcast version edited, then?

b) The Tories really don't have to make a sound. Labour is, by itself, doing remarkably well at shooting itself in the foot.

And there's no chance of any of these chancers resigning, either.

last week, Nick, you acquired the habit of signing off your reports with apparent quotes from Labour backbenchers on the Government's woes. I can see the appeal of this technique (providing a punchy end to the report), however, the regular use of unattributable quotes is lazy journalism which, inadequately serve the viewer/listeners' interests.

Last night's report on the 10 ended with quotes from a blog. Comments (especially anon) from the blogosphere are mere virtual graffiti and have no place in public service broadcasting.

A bit of colour now and then is fine but anonymous, unvalidated and random opinions diminish the quality of ±«Óãtv journalism.

Jacquie Smith is, arguably, the finest ±«Óãtv Secretary for a generation. My personal opinion of her remains solid and she has a free hand as far as I'm concerned. The government is cutting down the brambles of regulation which is making the polices job easier and calming attitudes which destabilise society. Calls for resignation and populism are misjudgements on par with the errors that led to the Iranian border affair earlier this year. The politics of fear and greed has reached the very top of society, and I fully support the government's efforts to turn this boat around.

When I provided assistance to the police that led to the discovery of a multi-million pound tax fraud, they bungled the investigation. When I provided assistance to the police to catch criminals that were causing a local business to fail they bungled the arrests. When I needed help from the police there was disinterest, whitewash, and finger pointing. On the plus side, I admire the strategic focus and intelligence led approach that has helped reduce some of the worst crime in some of the blackspots in my home city, and similar action that has helped to contain terrorism.

I strongly believe in quality, consensus, and the long-term. The police are part of the solution as much as they are part of the problem. In other words, they are mortal flesh and blood like the rest of us. Their mistakes and difficulties are our mistakes and difficulties, and they deserve all the help and assistance they can to improve, but they are not a special case. My view is that by focusing on self-improvement and being in-touch with communities their authority and support will naturally develop. This will be worth a significant pay rise but it won't happen overnight.

Calm and patience are useful qualities. As part of their formal training the Tokyo Riot Police are taught and encouraged to grow bonsai trees. By developing calm and patience as part of your character or approach to life, judgement is less impaired and actions are less hasty. Indeed, developing this and a sense of gratitude can help develop wellbeing, happiness, and success, and help avoid silliness like the De Menzies affair and unnecessary truculence. Perhaps, the ±«Óãtv Secretary can buy every police officer a bonsai tree? It would be a gesture.

67 questions ???
;)

If you remember Nick, there was a similar problem about 5 years ago.

The main issue to me is that the Government has once ignored an independant decision. If that is the case, what is the point in negotiation?

The Government is dangerously losing the trust of much of the public sector. Not much more I think before a situation arises that will cripple the Government.

You say parliament would never pass legislation permitting police officers to strike. For you in just a few days time it will be old news. For the police this is fundamental to our relationship with the government. If we cannot expect them to honour agreements, then in this era of 'rights' we will have to apply to the European court of human rights to force the government to accept binding arbitration. Under the convention, article 11 relates to the right to join a trade union, but states 'this article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions (restrictions not a ban) on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police'. On the principle of 'you can't have it both ways' the court may well decide that by not honouring arbitration this government is imposing unlawful restrictions on the police. The real question should be 'Does the government really want to take it that far'.

Nick, just a thought, Gordon Brown has said that the back dating of the award for Scottish officers is being paid for at a cost of money earmarked for 500 new recruits. If that money really was earmarked for the recruits, is he not admitting that the government had already decided not to honour arbitration?

It won't cost £40M - that the gross figure - about 40% of that will come in tax.

It won't increase inflation.

The government seem to want to set the news agenda by creating false issues. However it seems the wrong fight to pick - and a lose lose situation.

However - if the police go on strike (even unofficial) - then they will lose my support.

1. Scottish Police getting the full pay rise - did anyone really think Slippery Salmond would pass up such a wonderful opportunity to drive the wedge a little deeper between Scotland and England? It's a reprise of his extremely clever "England should if it wishes be independent of Scotland" play.

2. Just before I collapse in grief for the Inspectors who start on £42k a year, let's not forget that the Police get to retire after 30 years' service on a very generous, taxpayer-backed, inflation-linked pensions scheme. Many retired policemen, aged 48 upwards, then go on to have second careers and put away a second pension plan as well. And please don't tell me how they pay 11% of their pay into the pension - it's nowhere near enough to fund the benefits enjoyed by even the lowliest copper.

I realise that criticising the Police is as socially unacceptable as criticising dear sweet nurses but let's not kid ourselves that they're hard done by, eh?

MarkF at post 21, like so many people, misses the point here: the police are not claiming penury, or asking for a pay "rise" - what they are seeking is the honouring of a long-standing agreement with government that pegs their earnings at a level that is fair. This agreement has been in place since 1980, after an independent review into pay and conditions. Without a legal right to take industrial action it is only by this mechanism that the police can rely on fair treatment. The governemnt's decision is a disgraceful betrayal of a service on which they increasingly rely to glue together the cracks in society that they have created.

Frankly, given the increasing risks to which officers are exposed on our behalf, I would like to see the pay rates of police constables and MP's exchanged! And no more voting through their own pay rises by politicians either.

MarkF, in strictly financial terms, police pay

could be considered quite respectable BUT...

In terms of the restrictions imposed on day to

day life and the real, genuine.... (honestly

it's true) risk to life and limb then you are

well off the mark in saying they're not hard

done by!

Lots of the job's downsides apply equally to

others but how many other jobs have to put up

with all of them?

24 hour rotating shifts with all their

problems, no guarantee you will be allowed to

enjoy your days off after your night

shifts....if the system decides you will spend

those days sat outside a court waiting room

after being warned the night before, or a

public event known about the year before

suddenly becomes an 'exigency of duty'. Tough

if you had family plans or commitments or

holidays booked. No rights to meal breaks...

no canteens to even use for meal breaks.

A discipline system skewed towards allowing

the very worst in society to retaliate for the

fact that you have simply done your job. That

system parallels the criminal justice system

and can carry the same penalties. If the drug

dealer, rapist, armed robber makes an

allegation against you it will be investigated

with AT LEAST the same resources their crimes

are!

Research shows only ONE THIRD of police

marriages are able to stand up to the strains

of it all. Not my figures, just fact.

The oath sworn when becoming a constable makes

reference to preventing and detecting crime

and protecting life and property. Most join

exppecting to do just that. Not to be seen as

the dustbin men for societies ills.

We are not social workers, mental health

professionals, soldiers, locksmiths,

mechanics, teachers, cleaners, dog wardens,

road sweepers, the list is endless but if

nobody else will do it or it's outside office

hours then the old bill will have to sort it.

'Leaders' desperate to prove their PC

credentials and implement the latest change

for no particular benefit other than to

demonstrate they can. All helps them gain the

next rank... then they can do it again on a

bigger scale.

The public sick to death of being dealt with

for what they consider trivial matters, but

disgusted at having to wait too long when they

need the police to deal those same trivial

incidents if they affect themselves.

No we DON'T get bonuses for tickets or

arrests....just grief from those receiving

them.

I have tended to numerous people shot, stabbed

and dying. I have saved several lives that

would have definitely been lost. I have been

assaulted numerous times and threatened with

real guns, real knives and real danger. I

swear to you that is all true. I have rarely

receieved thanks or commendation for any of

it. I am by no means unique.

All we ask is that we are allowed to receive a

decent pay rise, when it is promised, not a

pay cut when the incredibly well rewarded

government decides to play political football

with us.

None of us would dream of taking industrial

action and letting more bad guys get away with

it....but please messrs Brown, Smith, McNulty

and Co, don't take the pee out of us.

ps I know this is quite long, it needs to be, but Id rather it wasn't posted if it's edited thanks.

So,if the police go on strike, who will supervise their pickets? I say let the miners do it.

Dear Nick,
I can see what Jacqui Smith's plan is, in the event of the police going on strike. She will simply utilise some of the 1,000 or so illegals who her ±«Óãtv Office allow to work as security guards. Cheaper even than PCSOs!

MarkF wrote: "...Inspectors who start on £42k a year," It's only a minority of police officers who reach inspector rank or above. "let's not forget that the Police get to retire after 30 years' service on a very generous, taxpayer-backed, inflation-linked pensions scheme." Firstly, it's not index-linked until you reach 55, and secondly, for the past couple of years officers have had to sign up for a far less generous pension after 35 years. "Many retired policemen...then go on to have second careers and put away a second pension plan as well." And, after decades of stressful shift work, quite a few pop their clogs within a few short years of finishing and end up with nothing!

How many increases have MPs given to themselves? How many privileges they have that cost a lot more than 200 pound? The government is denying people who put their lives in danger to protect our lives 200 pound a year. How much does the ±«Óãtv Secretary earn?

There is a lot of flu going around, the Police can't strike, but we can go sick, and if we all went sick at the same time. mmmm interesting.

I could do with a rest from K.P.I's, reducing violent crime figures by criming a robbery to a theft from the person, and arresting for drunk amnd disorderly rather that Section 5 public order.

So, the Police are threatening to strike.

If so, they deserve as much sympathy as they showed the striking miners.

i.e. none.

We haven't all forgotten Orgreave - the last battle on English soil, where baton-wielding Police officers charged decent working men (and women) on horseback, spat in their faces and mockingly waved their overtime cash at them.

Using inflation as an excuse is a nonsense.

This is the government that changed the official inflation statistic from RPI to CPI.

For those not in the know, CPI strips out HOUSING and COUNCIL TAX.

Guess what's gone up a lot in the last 10 years?

RPI, by comparison, peaked at 4.8% earlier this year and is now 4.2%.

Last time I was at school 2.5% was comfortably below 4.2%

It seems a little absurd that the government are not paying something they apparently promised to pay, particularly at a time when they are receiving unexpected bounties of taxation from fuel, now at 1.02-1.08 a litre.

Strange that no-one has mentioned this. This revenue would more than offset the "inflationary" pay increases they are talking about.

But then, why is it absurd to think that this government refuses to fulfil its promises ?

Police Staff (including CSO's) have just had their pay increase of 2.5 % ratified by the Government and it has ben back dated to September. I am not saying they do not do a good job, but I understand most are office based and not exposed to the dangers police officers are.

What sort of message is the Government sending out to our police officers. Also is there a magic trick which prevents police staff pay contributing to inflation. It seems if you are a nurse or a copper you will have to take it on the chin. Can it be because the Government know they cannot or will not strike. Strikes me as similar to the bully in the play ground, picking on the weakest. Shame on this Government