±«Óãtv

Come in with a pardon Gord, for the black hack knight has blown it
(with apologies to Lord Byron)

I suppose it is more newsworthy when a Minister (lawyer to boot) breaks the law, but to put this error into perspective, NN should refer to a case dealt with by UK Border Control Agency (Sky1 TV last week).
I missed the start, but it dealt with an Indian migrant living in UK with his 2 (two) wives caught running a huge illegal immigrant scheme (called Univisa?). Having already massive evidence of their forged documentation and scheme UKBCA still engaged in plea-bargaining for a lower sentence to get a confession of guilt!

The crook wanted a further concession of keeping his UK house which prompted a search for an amount of some unaccounted for £millions.
No cash was found, but incoming mail at the address containing more bank statements that hadn't been declared, showing very substantial sums transferred to bank accounts in India. The sentences were not proportionate to the magnitude of the scam or the uncounted cost of the many untraceable illegals, who paid the criminals and settled in UK; the UKBCA recommended deportment after sentences are served. This has involved huge costs to the taxpayer of the scam, the investigation, the court case, and now the imprisonment. One official said it was just the tip of the iceberg!

What is needed is more summary justice and harsher punishments as the potential gains far exceed the risks for criminals, not to mention the risks to our society.

Attorney-General please take note – and firmer action. Must try harder.

"We'll debate if it's been a good decision by President Obama or not."

I think you mean you will speculate, as US national security is classified.

Is that news?

I hope you will not be giving a Baroness Scotland an easy ride. I am not being vindictive, but if draconian laws are passed where it is not necessary to prove that someone has knowingly broken the law, well one should have one's feet held to the fire to get a taste of one's own mixed metaphor...

And why are the people in Yoorup complaining ? They were whingeing when these missile thingies were being planned to tweaking the tail of the Ruskie bear, now they are up in arms that they are not being installed.

Anyway, if Russia did decide to annexe a bit of Poland or the Czech Republic, can you honestly see tens of thousands of American troops being deployed on the ground to sort it out ? Or Obama taking the risk of nuclear conflagration ? No, me neither - there would just be some form of 'summit' and a 'talking shop' and 'UN arbitration' and as long as no oil fields are harmed a dodgy deal would be struck 'Lockerbie style' over some cups of tea and coffee..

"DOING THE JOB THAT THEY LOVE" (EXTREME PAINTBALLING)

Come on Newsnight - let's nail the real questions:
(1) If they do it because they love it (as frequently stated) AND get paid, what would be the right noun/adjective to describe them?
(2) How many ACTUALLY BELIEVE they are protecting Britain, rather than provoking a vengeful foreigner?
(3) Is the divide between foolhardiness and bravery, one of wearing a uniform?
(4) Is 'the ultimate price' death, or a lifetime of terrible disability, with 'collateral damage' to loved ones and unlimited costs to NHS?

EARTH IS NOT THE ONLY PLANET

Other planets have warming poles also. The most plausible explanation is electrical flows through the plasma of space DISCREDITED BY THE SAME SORT OF BIGOTS WHO SPEND THEIR DAYS APPLYING STICKING PLASTER TO THE BIG BANG MODEL.

Helloooooo Sooooooooooosaaaaan!!! Check out 'The Electric Universe' and bring it to Newsnight. I won't bite.

barrie, I reckon you've got as much chance of them covering that as the ETS stuff, or that IQ and personality is nearly all genetic/inherited. There's too much money to be made from peddling the opposite..:-(

#40 from previous page from mimpromptu
Barrie
I never thought you, personally, belonged to hell. /I know, however, a few who I'd like to send straight to hell./
If that's a sort of apology, it is accepted.

there is no threat from iran. Well done to the usa for trying to extricate itself from ludicrous neocon fantasies.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

bookhimdano (#9) "there is no threat from iran. Well done to the usa for trying to extricate itself from ludicrous neocon fantasies."

They won't take this lying down. They just can't help themselves. There's something very wrong with them...;-)

The story on Baroness Scotland is interesting and poses several questions.

1. Has she broken a law she introduced?
2. If she hasn't why she simply doesn't prove it?
3. Has any enquiry by officialdom on someone from New Labour ever found them guilty of anything?

Perhaps the most damning indictment of her might be in her defender on the programme Keith Vaz. You can tell your position by the type of person who defends you!

Why does a short term visitor have a National Insurance Number instead of a Foreign National Visitor Number so the Dept of work and pensions along with customs can monitor and easily access all visitor ebb and flow?

Once a visitor is employed, the main burden of responsibility must be with the government party in charge of initiating, extending, terminating visitor status and enforcing violations of contract where necessary. Given addition administration cost of visitor management is taxation of visitor employment at a higher rate?

Self employed business still have to notify the tax office when they start a new employee, so whilst they may only do periodic accounts the government in charge should still be aware of transitional periods of visitor status. Hence if the government was in receipt of taxation for a period of two years for a visitor with a 6 month contract, what happened to enforcement?

Are visitor applications costs charged as an application fee and administration fee upon acceptance or are the costs covered by the resident tax payers?

If the law makes the employer responsible for migration, how does the employer know the visitor actually leaves the country and how does a third party employer know the status of a visitor with an active national insurance number?

Provision of a national insurance number by a worker on a short term visitation arrangement confronts the employer with a document that implies a sense of permanence or authorized status, given National Insurance is a scheme devised to provide native inhabitants with a pension scheme following a working life. It’s a bogus document to the validity of credentials relative to short term visitation and if it is utilized it should expire and relate the upcoming termination of visitation contract to the body in charge of control…why wasn’t the employer notified by the tax office that the taxation revenue managed and received from an inactive NI number was illegitimate?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

from mimpromptu
Whatever anybody says, it doesn't look like the Polish Government is too upset about the new defence arrangements, with the details of which, however, not yet fully known.
Personally, I'm quite satisfied myself with the proposals and discussions taking place in this regard.

from mimpromptu re: future arrangements

Lick, lick, you might get a tick.
Watch, watch, you might get a notch.
From Madam Mim, the wisdom surveyor,
The world’s real people appreciating mayor.

But watch out, Madam Mim has sharpened her biting teeth

ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER: DOES THE MEDIA PREFERENTIALLY RECRUIT 'MULTI-TASKERS'?

Newsnight - Monday's special was good and relevant to what's allegedly hurting Britain and the USA, so here's a production tip:- what's relevant and important continues to be relevant and important until something's done about it. Instead of covering incidental 9often trivial) issues which just grab attention for a while (probably engineered by those who want the spotlight taken off the above problem), what you should be pursuing is different aspects of the socio-economic issues which directly affect the majority of Britons at home. Most of the news on the ±«Óãtv in general is just a distraction, and your resources would be far better deployed highlighting aspects of the problem covered on Monday. Some of us don't care about a Swiss company tipping stinky stuff in Africa, we care more about all the stinky stuff being dumped by the media on the public. Just tell those Africans 'if the stuff stinks, best stay away from it, not poke it with sticks!

Is it my imagination, or is the news ? It isn't a dimorphic thing, but you do know that when people differ, they often can't see it in themselves because something is missing.... it means one has to go by statistics to see what is really going on. But that demands 'geeky' skills in 'autistic' subjects like science and maths....and there's a major sex difference in the upper tail there.

Given that the birth rate is well below replacement level (across the liberal-democracies), is much lower amongst the 'educable' than amongst those who are not, and is not improved by bringing lots of lower ability people into the country who then have lots of children, if you tailor your programme to what the majority want, you will go out of business as a quality programme serving the educable.

#18 from mimpromptu - a comment to #16
Well, what with all the licking going on at every turn, with people sticking their tongues out to pass on internationally 'grave' messages. It started with an innocent lick and look where it's taken us.....

BLINGOLOGY

barrie (#6) "DISCREDITED BY THE SAME SORT OF BIGOTS WHO SPEND THEIR DAYS APPLYING STICKING PLASTER TO THE BIG BANG MODEL."

Read 'Two Dogmas of Empiricism' (especially the last third) and 'The Web of Belief' for how science pragamtically works by necessity. Theories, however imperfect (and it seems to hold for personal belief systems too, George Kelly mined tht one via PCT), are only replaced when the 'critical mass' of evdidence which they can explain are better explained by something else, but that somehing new has to be able to explain all the old stuff and make more powerful predictions etc, otherwise we band-aid the old one. Kuhn pinched this 'paradigm' idea from Quine's 'Two Dogmas' paper, Quine would have taught him.

Sadly, these days, 'scientific' theories now serve all sorts of other pragmatic purposes in addition (at the expense of?) 'pursuit of truth' :-( ...

AN ASTUTE OBSERVATION (#12)

"You can tell your position by the type of person who defends you!"

By the same token we can judge the socio-political health of the planet by the man who seems to 'represent' us all: Prancing Tony.

The common factor is WESTMINSTER, which 'draws its own' and distils, from that dark pit, ministers and prime ministers. The only hope that I can see is if enough INDEPENDENTS are elected in 2010 to -
SPOIL PARTY GAMES.

If Baroness Scotland was 'Baroness Scotland Ltd', she'd be facing a £10,000 fine almost without question. Did she see the correct, genuine papers? Did she carry out the checks that she insists all other employers have to do? Did she give a damn at all, or did she think 'I'm a Baroness, part of this government's untouchable elite, and I'm above all that stuff'?
Sadly, I can hear the whitewash being mixed right now....

A STRANGE ATTRACTOR

barrie (#20) I appear to attract the wrong sorts.

Is it something I say?

(:o) M'LUD - I PROTEST - THE DEFENDANT IS LEADING THE WITNESS! (#22)

Might you be a good friend of the Truth but your own worst enemy Jaded jean? When you shed the Burqa and emerge into the light - should I still be alive (not found 'dead in the woods' or alternative) - we can compare notes on our respective Strange Attractiveness (even strangeness itself, or - perhaps - charm?) in a cafe in Brixton, shortly before the Earth is demolished to make way for a Hyperspace Bypass. I'll give you a full answer then.

Baroness Scotland did a very 'good' (anarchistic?) job on behalf of the party, in steering the Offender Management Bill through the Lords. The result is to be the effective devolution or is that 'competitive tendering' of the offender management side of the Probation Service to the Private and Third Sectors in the interest of efficiency, leaving the former to mainly do court reports from risk assessment casework etc.

Also, I'm a little puzzled, would it not be the case that such a senior Public figure would have had the security service vetting and watching their employees?

To repeat: if it stinks, don't poke it with sticks!

Richard Perle bemoaning the dropping of the 'missile shield' was an unintentionally humorous piece. Seymour Hersh has written about Perle's possible conflict of interests when it comes to defence systems. It would have been a chuckle to have Hersh on from New York!

But Newsnight, what possible benefit to your listeners was it to have him on? He's been discredited and wrong so many times, especially regarding Iraq, where he memorable stated that 'Iraqis would dedicate a square to George W. Bush".

You could have asked him about George Mitchell's efforts to freeze illegal settlement building in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, but his answer would have been predictable and evasive.

I personally feel that Baroness Scotland is being unfairly attacked by the media, yes she has broken the law, but it seems clear that this was done unknowingly.

The good that might come out of this 'news story' is that Baroness Scotland might take another look at some of the idiotic legislation that Labour seems so desperate to inflict on its constituents.

The Baroness will get off as she is too high profile to get anything else. You and I and all the plebs will get the full monty but the elite, who can frame their own expenses etc., cannot be seen to be on our earthly plane and prefer, and expect to be treated like Royalty. Come to think of it our Royals have employing dodgy types for years...and even marrying Greeks!

How many of the Green Howards will return without physical or physiological injuries? Why are they going? Both of these questions are missing in Mark Urban's report.

perle still talking about soviets? time to take old dobbo down to the bottom field with the revolver?

afghaniland

The Ministry of Defence admitted last week that 14.6 percent of the armed forces – 25,400 of the 174,000 service personnel – are unfit for combat duties.


pointless war for no cause. its not about 'victory'. its about waking up from the neocon sleepwalking spell.

Lording it up

Jolly hockey sticks Scotty getting dirty with the illegal [cheap] economy? do the spooks not check who has close access to ministers these days?

There's always that that the President of Palestine did his PhD in Moscow, had his supervisor allocated by someone who was rather senior in the government (Primakov), and expressed more than a few doubts as his thesis. The Soviets liberated the so-called death-mills remember.

Still, stinky stuff best not poked - bad for the economy?

#1 indignatindegene

"What is needed is more summary justice and harsher punishments as the potential gains far exceed the risks for criminals, not to mention the risks to our society."

The trouble is when you consider what "summary justice" and "harsh" may mean when people from the far right like the BNP get involved.

So far as I know the BNP cannot be in the Border Control Agency but you have to look no further than this page and the Hitler-loving National Socialists to see plenty of reasons why "summary justice" could lead to problems. These are the kind of people who see Jews as part of an International conspiracy and adhere to race "realism".

How long before they use "summary justice" on somebody because their race determines them to be "an internal political and economic threat".

Vaz-the-waz *** * ** **** ?
, **** **. * Scotland.** **** *** ****
** * **... *** * *, ****
**** ***?! ** ** **** * *** *** * **. ***
*** *** ** * * ** fat sweating fraudulent b*m!


modder, I've put time and effort into this...have a heart!

#30 jaded_Jean

"The Soviets liberated the so-called death-mills remember."

They also found the inmates of the Nazi death camps pre-starved and with plenty of bodies and experienced no disease as the main culprit of the deaths as you have claimed.

The US and UK liberated the western camps and would have had no reason to lie about their existence as they were about to win the war.

There were no reliable statistics showing numbers of Jews prior to the Holocaust so your previous botched attempts at Holocaust "agnosticism" via statistics void. Hence Nazi war criminals have never used that line in court successfully and hence you nor anybody else will be providing this "evidence" to say the alleged Nazi war criminal Djemjanjuk. There are mountains of evidence including the notebooks and documentation of those like Mengele and Heim.

You are always trying to snaffle Labour voters who may be impressed by your "statist" ideology National Socialism as you claim it is "similar" to Old Labour. Quite an outrageous claim in itself.

So its bizarre that you have claimed that the Holocaust was made up to put people off the "statists". Thats because you also say any violent deaths not down to disease were executed by the Russian Stalinists - who are also "statists".

#19 Jaded_Jean

"Sadly, these days, 'scientific' theories now serve all sorts of other pragmatic purposes in addition (at the expense of?) 'pursuit of truth'"

You always infer you have a sound scientific basis for your theories on race "realism" (or racism to normal folk) and eugenics.

So as ever your incompetent lies are adolescent assertions of what you want to believe and the truth is not theory but fact.

Genetic variation IS greater within a race than between races. The scientists even know why - the world is largely descended from a very few individuals proven by genetic analysis.

Most of the genetic differences are cosmetic (skin colour, eye shape and so on) so your proclamations are drivel.

But you are not in any kind of pursuit of truth as anybody who has ever read your incoherent "reasons" for believing in the alleged Jewish Communist International.

Pure poison.

#17 Jaded_Jean

"Just tell those Africans 'if the stuff stinks, best stay away from it, not poke it with sticks!"

Is this humanity breaking through the evil of your National Socialist doctrines? No of course you are being unpleasant as that is what drives you and you hope the shock will intimidate others and bring more coverage.

Probably Newsnight can grasp that.

For those that do not know Jaded_Jean reveres Hitler and would do away with the benefits of democracy in return for the chains of tyranny. Its not a good trade as you basically put a replacement aristocrat and his elite in power and the ideology is just a means of identifying the cult members.

The Jewish International Conspiracy does not exist except in their minds and the Holocaust "agnosticism" reveals that there is no depth that they would not plumb.

There is no science behind their racial analysis and you would not want these people implementing their proposed policies on eugenics and euthanasia.

Hideous views from hideous people with no political outlet.

The BNP is "not a Nazi party" and as Nationalists who are neither Stalinist or National Socialist they must be "anarchists and Trotskyites" and we know how Nazis feel about them.

Of course it could be an attempt to snaffle a few votes from the naive as once people clock their reverence for Hitler they may put their vote elsewhere.

thegangofone (#34) Who provided the reports? Answer, the Soviets. Who was bombing German supply lines? Who did his Holocaust Denial thesis in Moscow? Answer: the President of Palestine. Who reportedly chose his PhD supervisor? Answer:- ex Premier Primakov

You need to learn something about politics and propaganda perhaps.

Some peole say there was no holocaust, just deaths, disease and mass migrations. You should look into both sides. Does the atrocity story serve a political purpose? Possibily.

#6 barriesingleton

"Other planets have warming poles also. The most plausible explanation is electrical flows through the plasma of space DISCREDITED BY THE SAME SORT OF BIGOTS WHO SPEND THEIR DAYS APPLYING STICKING PLASTER TO THE BIG BANG MODEL."

The bigots who show climate change is happening influenced by human CO2 emissions have an accumulated total of thousands of years of pertinent research whilst you "have done a bit of R&D". Their models successfully explain this warming trend and largely explain previous trends so they have sound reason.

But then you often cite Jaded_Jean as an expert on genetics when the science shows that there is no basis for the National Socialist racial analysis offered by that disciple of Hitler.

On cuts is there not a false argument about "cut now or cut later".

If the markets don't see cuts soon then maybe the credit rating agencies change the UK status and debt costs us more.

If you create a surge in unemployment - that is better than expected right now - then confidence may be damaged and we can't afford more QE I assume.

But surely you can signal what you are going to do and lead off with the scrapping of future projects that will probably include Trident and then work towards other more painful cuts later? Seeing the plan will boost confidence and maintain stability.

Also are some concepts like PFI now such a good idea - for those that ever thought they were - in a world with less credit?

Might it not be an idea, if you can, to take some PFI projects into direct public ownership with less overall cost?

thegangofone (#35) Instead of dashing off all these diatribes each day, spend some time looking critically into some of the things you believe to be true. is one example (and there are many others).

There are a number of psychiatric disorders (e.g. the DSM-IV Axis II Personality Disorders) where those afflicted believe and say all sorts of things which are not true. There are also some types of brain damage where those affected truly believe what they say, but it is all false. At least some of the stories told about the Germans are not credible (and have been shown to be false, soap, skin etc). They appear to be the products of hysterical or other Axis II disorder imaginations, or just black propaganda.

It is also extremely unhealthy, i.e. a sign of poor mental health/lowish intelligence, not to critically appraise what one is told. At the same time, it is not healthy to doubt absolutely everything. There is room for doubt in these atrocity stories. They are often made up or exaggerated in wartime. Israel is 'at war' in all but name, and those who were dispossessed in Europe in the 1930s, now living in the USA mainly, have a vested interest today in securing affirmative action and funding in support of their causes. You should try to remember that.

DOES THE GANGO FONE HAVE NORMAN ANCESTRY? (#37)

It would explain a lot (in an oblique way) if Jaded Jean is really Pauvre Jean de Paris!

Yo Gango. I hope you are young and in good health. If so, you will live to see the Electric Universe installed as the most viable paradigm and to watch the Big Bang universe go 'boiling away into space' - better still: into multidimensional hyperspace.

barrie (#23) Wheter #37 is a clinical cse or just activism doesn't really matter. In the end, it's incorrgible. , a darling of The New Left and many Neocons. They couldn't bear his anarchism in the USSR, but it found a home in the USA and Mexico. Do we now have it here?

#31 G1
"What is needed is more summary justice and harsher punishments as the potential gains far exceed the risks for criminals, not to mention the risks to our society."

You isolated that one phrase from my #1 about serious immigration crooks just to hang your usual diatribe:-

"The trouble is when you consider what "summary justice" and "harsh" may mean when people from the far right like the BNP get involved".

Since you have explained before that you are free to make assumptions about other bloggers from their references, I claim the same privilege:

People who continually utter the same boring phrases, unrelated to the material at issue, come from a dysfunctional background and are looney-lefty-liberals who take a lenient view of criminality yet live in constant fear of true facts and events that may shine some light onto their dark brooding lives.

What is all the fuss about.

The European missile defence shield was next to useless and would have been as much use as a chocolate fireguard against you know who. The last time any sort of barrier was put up like this in Europe the enemy tanks simply skirted around it (in 2009 this means looking down from space with satellite weapons, surveillance and targeting).

This bad project reflected corrupt US defence procurement and the bad politics of Bush who managed to antagonise just about every one on planet earth in trying to look good amongst his own peers and keep face with his own hawkish supporters.

If Pres. Obama puts the same energy into reviewing the strategy and tactics in Afghanistan he may yet decide to deploy US resources to fight a world wide 'dirty war' that is in progress and end the predictability of the current strategy and tactics on NATO allies in places such as Afghanistan. This should save countless lives of allied service personnel on the battle-field (I don't like the word 'theatre' - that's a politicians word for softening the reality of conflict - 'it ain't no visit to any theatre').

Pres. Obama might also change US law to allow US combatants to go virtually anywhere in the world and kill enemies of the US virtually anywhere at any time. Exceptional times require exceptional actions in keeping ordinary citizens 'safe'.

The key point being - to keep one's enemies guessing at all times!

#43
"Pres. Obama might also change US law to allow US combatants to go virtually anywhere in the world and kill enemies of the US virtually anywhere at any time. Exceptional times require exceptional actions in keeping ordinary citizens 'safe'."

This is already happening (c.f. extra-judicial drone killings).
The practice is a complete violation of international law and norms but if it's happening in Northern Pakistan or Somalia instead of Western Europe, nobody bats an eyelid.
In a civilised world, enemies should be held accountable in a court of law instead of a drone control room in Texas.

Sickening hypocrisy, not Realpolitik.

THEY ARE EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US (#44)

No third way there. Reminds me of poor Arthur Dent being told the planning permission for the destruction of Earth was posted in Alpha Centauri. Anyway - heroes (and heroic drones) can do no wrong. The guy driving that drone is risking repetitive strain injury, that we might go about our Tescos free from Terror. (Mind you, if they hang many more of those massive signs from the ceiling, I might manage a panic attack. And Panic is surely the next best thing to Terror?) Be afraid . . .

44. At 4:20pm on 18 Sep 2009, Irish_Mark wrote:

It's a so called 'dirty war' without any rules of engagement and there is no withdrawal or discussion with a largely unseen terrorist enemy, who will not negotiate.

If such a revised strategic focus is successful in terms of reducing allied personnel casualties - Would you not think it justifiable for those countries who are sacrificing their finest and best to keep the world free and to allow armchair critics to voice their opinions?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#43
from mimpromptu
Nautonier
many good points in your post