SongSpoiler - The Reality Debate
It's always funny when rocksnobs get on their high horse about bands or singers who write and perform their own songs. Partly because rock is the only medium whose devotees would value a bad autobiography over a good novel, but mainly due to the staggering levels of denial involved in making the argument in the first place.
Artists who write their own material, the theory goes, are inherently superior to artists who don't, because the music they make is forged from the bruises on their own hearts, the blood in their own veins and the sweat of their own brow, and is therefore honest and truthful and real.
This immediately relegates all other forms of music into a dark hole, where things which are dishonest, lying and fake live. This then establishes a firm moral heirarchy of music which it is OK to like, and music which is not OK to like, even without hearing it.
Now, there's really only one problem with this theory. It is CACK.
If you go and see a film, you don't storm out after the first couple of minutes, shouting the odds about how all the people on the screen aren't REALLY on an alien planet, they're just PRETENDING, and therefore LYING, do you? And you certainly wouldn't dismiss all of the films in the world which do NOT feature the person who wrote the script as the lead actor, in favour of the tiny minority of films which do, would you?
Same with any other performance artform you'd care to name, really. If the person who tells you a story also wrote the story, that's great. If they didn't, so what? What we want to know is whether the three little pigs escape the big bad wolf or not...
Which leads me to the two greatest rocksnob denials of all.
Rocksnob Denial The First: If a band or singer writes a song and it sounds exactly like another band or singer's song, it's STILL inherently more worthy than an entirely new sort of song written for Girls Aloud by professional songwriters because it is played on 'real' instruments. And if that band does a cover of that exact song by Girls Aloud, this is also more worthy, even though it's a cover (rocksnobs hate covers) and it's a pop song (rocksnobs hate pop songs).
This theory is perfectly valid, assuming the very last thing you want to do in your appreciation of music is listen to it...
Rocksnob Denial The Second: Rock lyrics, no matter how wafty, nonsensical, formulaic and dim, are ALWAYS superior to manufactured pop lyrics, because they are 'meaningful'.
Just because "when you go would you have the guts to say I don't love you, like I loved you yesterday" means something to you, it doesn't make "I wanna have your babies, I'm serious like crazy" or "you can stand under my um-bah-rellah" meaningLESS. The songs are intended for different situations, and that's FINE.
Also, there are some words which are often used to evaluate modern music, words like 'important', 'meaningful', 'seminal' (ICK!), 'worthy', and worst of all...'quality'. These words are evil because the implication is that there is a universal standard of amazingness which some music achieves, and which places it beyond all criticism forever more.
That's also cack, I'm afraid. There are some people who prefer Scooch to [your favourite rock band] and who's to say they're wrong?
I mean they ARE wrong, but not in a way that can be measured by science.
Yes there are brilliant bands who write their own songs, yes there are brilliant songwriters who deliver their own lines beautifully...these people are like musical poets, right?
But there are also brilliant bands who DON'T write their own songs, and brilliant singers who only manage to get their name on a songwriting credit so that they can afford shoes...and these people are like musical actors.
Poets and actors, actors and poets. They're not the same, and one isn't better than the other. But one thing's for sure, if you judge pop by the worst pop stars, what's to stop popsnobs judging rock in a similar fashion, mm?
So, with that in mind, here's the new single by Air Traffic, it's called 'Shooting Star'. They wrote it themselves, y'know.
And after a few listens and a VERY big think, I still can't work out which Coldplay song they have entirely re-recorded and claimed as their own. So here's 'Speed Of Sound'...
PS: Bizarrely, rocksnobs also hate McFly, even though they have guitars, write their own songs, sing their own songs and can play their own songs in a live environment. This is partly because McFly's music sell primarily to teenage girls (rocksnobs hate teenage girls), and partly because McFly confuse rocksnobs by obeying all the rock rules and still being obviously (hah!) a pop band. The average rocksnob head can't contain all of this information without exploding, as this diagram explains...
Comments
loved this
its all so true
wow
you've struck a blow 4 all the music i love
booooooooo
down with rock snobs!!!!!
erm, THIS IS SOOOO UNTURE! ok, so just cus a pop artist may not write their own stuff, thats fine, it can still be a good song........BUT music isnt just about what you hear on face surface which is what you tend to do with pop songs, its deeper than that, a deepness which can only truely be protrayed by the artist who wrote it! and these pop stars take the credit for the song writing talents of others. im not sayig they pass it off as their own but no one knows (unless your a music boff, so fraser, fraymond whatever you dont count) who wrote girls alouds last album etc! when it comes to pop stars their only talent is they can sing, and very well sometimes but thats it....and they can sometimes dance and tend to be pretty but thats not a talent.
and i have no problem with mcfly, at all. i wouldnt say i was a mcfly fan but i respect them, if you think just cus someone appeals to 12 year old girls that makes them less talented than another guitar wielding band then youre wrong.
and you bought up mcr not me.....look at the right sites or just talk to dedicated mcr fans youll hear mcr saved me, i doubt youll hear a girls aloud fan say that! that says something, right?!
...
...
...
....................idiot
[Kerri, once again you've reacted badly to a perceived slight to MCR which ISN'T THERE. All I said was that some songs are intended to carry a deep message about feelings, and some aren't. It doesn't automatically make the deep songs better or the shallow songs worse. You love MCR, they really do it for you. Good. Some people really love Girls Aloud in that exact same way. Live with it. - Fraser]
oh and in answer to your 'funny' how to infuriate a rocksnob.... yes mcfly are a rock band. they are a mainstream, softcore rock band who can probably play very well live, i bet (stick with the running theme) girls aloud perform well live that just doesnt appeal to everyone!
I know that sometimes when an artist sings a song they wrote themselves it does have an extra something to it, simply because they're singing it right from the heart instead of just because it sounds like a good song. I also know that someone else might sing, right from the heart, a song that they didn't write but that has struck a chord (haha :P) with them and meant something to them and then this could very well have the same sort of depth to it.
Kerri, think of the song you have most identified with, ever. Do you think that because you didn't write this song it means so much less to you than the person that did?
Songwriters should be credited, but you can't use the fact that people don't know who wrote a given album to say that the musicians themselves are taking credit for it. It seems to be more of the case that the majority of members of the public choose not to pay as much attention to this as to the song itself.
Really, the most important thing is whether or not the singer/band are any good in the first place. If they are, then as long as the artist identifies with the material or even, in the case of the slightly more random stuff, really likes it, then they have a shot at making a decent song.. regardless of where the songwriting talent came from. Great acting always comes from the actors who can really identify with the character.
Loved the Scooch joke, Fraser. I'm sure I said that before, maybe it died.
Sorry this is just me being a bit pedantic BUT
Kerri- Actually a lot of people do know who wrote Girls Aloud's last album; Xenomania are a famous and extremely popular songwriting team in recent years (although they've cooled off a bit) -I know the radio doesn't mention it but it is in the album credits and the girls always thank them in their sleeve notes. :)
Also actually I do quite seriously think Girls Aloud at least gave me a new lease on life (which is generally what I think people are referring to with regards to bands 'saving' them) during a period in my life when I was extremely depressed and suicidal. Different strokes for different folks and things and whilst I know it's more unusual to be "saved" by Girls Aloud than MCR or Bright Eyes or Elliot Smith or Brand New or what-have-you, there are plenty of people for whom Girls Aloud's (and many other popstars) songs are sincere lifelines and who see MCR etc. as a bit of daft rock fun you can jump around your room too (well not in the case of Elliot Smith but you know what I mean). Our ears are just wired slightly differently, is how I think of it.
I JUST HAD TO WRITE IN AND SAY I AGREE WITH YOU 101%!
Now I am a huge music fan and love my rock and as well as my pop, r and B and yugoslavian circus music but what is the deal with rock fans??? None of them are truly individual , they like to think they are but they are not. I was at a fall out boy gig in april and EVERYONE (including me) was wearing a hoodie, jeans and converse trainers...you should see how some people's faces fell when they saw their 'style' being copied by an entire arena.
I feel that rock fans always want to be unique and superior..if anything they like enters the mainstream then the artist or band has 'sold out' (see Arctic Monkeys, Fall out Boy, MCR, Razorlight) They do not want anybody else listening to their music and always state that it is not cool to like mainstream pop music.
Geez..grow up, it's just music , life is too short to live your life to someone else's rules.
Err, rocksnobs, just because McFly write their own songs does not mean they are a rock band. In actual fact a POP band (although Wikepedia says they are a PUNK/POP band.)
And what about The Feeling, eh? They write their own songs and most of the music on 'Twelve Stops And ±«Óãtv' were produced at their homes so... Yes I know they have been called a 'softrock' band but they call themselves a POP band, so they must be a pop band. And, oh yeah, their lyrics are MEANINGFUL!
wow this is soo true!! and i love that bit about McFly its soooooooooooooo true!!
down with rocksnobs!!
Haha!
I love the bit about McFly because it's so true...you've put it in a really cool way too. Totally agree with you. Some rocksnob's music is really basic lyrics, like McFly but a little heavier, and it always gets taken seriously. Dudes, just enjoy the music. Thats what I think :]
ok ok, mention mcr and i get carried away, you and i both know that by now so perhaps should expect it. you also know i over react, which i know also so what i say gets exaggerated but ignore the exaggeration and see what my point is as thats what im trying to get across. to me its just that if someone doesnt write their own stuff its like their making all this money for being a good singer and thats where their talent ends. music, to me probably from personal experience, i know some people wont agree, isnt just about hearing a sound you like....compare it to poetry and that kind of stuff cus to me thats what i think of it as just in a different format. these musicians have a status, they are idols to some people and they are looked up to. to me to achieve that it should have nothing to do with how much talent you have but what you do with it, a great example is bob geldof as hes using his power to do something he believes in, to make a difference. a song doesnt have to be full of meaning to be a good song but to me the meaning shows that the artist isnt in it for the money and its usually the artists who write their own material that are in it to make the difference *tires extremely hard throughout all of this not to mention a certain band..you know who*
[Yep, and they are very good at it too. The point I was making is that the poet-rockers being good doesn't make the actor-popstars bad, which is a classic rocksnob assumption. It's two different disciplines, and there's a lot to be said for either approach. And there's more crossover than you'd think, hence the success of all those Live Lounge pop covers by serious rock acts. Also, Patrick Stump doesn't write the words he sings, does that mean he's more fake than Gerard Way? I'd say not.
I would hope, Kerri, that you would know by now that MCR are ChartBlog-approved in a BIG way. I may even do a How To Destroy... on them, just to prove it! Friends? - Fraser]
of course friends :D and i know what you mean, i never said songs not written by people were any worse, they just dont stand for the same thing. and i know wentzy writes the lyrics but patrick performes them and patrick writes the music. im not saything their fake but personally i find it hard to relate to fobs music, is it because patrick doesnt write the songs? or becase i dont like wentzy? i dont know. and i know mcr are CB approved, but you know i get carried away. and also im very angry anway after watching that stupid abc4 thing about emos....but thats another story. and please do do a how to destroy, that would rock! please not whlist im in aus though:)
Eep, sorry had to comment cos you mentioned AIR TRAFFIC!
An amazing band, have loved them for ages
Going to see them on monday *dances*
Anyways
It isn't just people who like rock music who have rules like this
You get some people who won't listen to any of that "grebby sh*t" (aka anything with guitars)
However, you then see them singing along to Fall Out Boy - Thnk Fr Th Mmrs..
Tis confusing
But at the end of the day, we all have our own music tastes and it makes us all different
If we were all the same it would be boring wouldnt it?
Nice article, but may I point out that Coldplay ripped off the Family Affairs theme tune from Channel 5 back in the day! Hehe!
mcfly is a pop band .. and that dont mean the is bad music...
rock/pop/r&b are the same .. they want the people hear ther music....
rock.. is like pop but harder ...!!!
WHY DO PARENT THINK THEY KNOW EVERTHING
I GOT A BOYFRIEND BUT I DON'T WANT TO TELL MY MUM
i lyk mcfly & at tyms i love thm bt i use 2 hate thm with a passion and now i realise that i was simply a rocksnob!! i was also a bit ashamed-i hav NO idea y bcus i lyk thm LoAdZ nw nd wats th point in following th crowd?? thats wat i used 2 do a bit =(=(
haha!!!
it has 2 b said, mcfly rock!=D=D
[DOUGIE--SMEXIE OR WAT??lol]
veryyyyy nice
looved the mcfly bit! so true hehe i shall go around asking rocksnobs that =D
haha
yes, mcfly DO ROCK! however they arent EXACTLY rock.... hmm...
my dad callys them a boyband 7 that annoys me cos westlife, backstreetboys & blue are/were boybands but then again they ARE boys & they ARE in a band.
:-/
i like to think of them as a pop rock genre
x
Ok, Kerri, (Sorry, I know everyone is sending messages to her) McFly have never claimed to be a "Rock Band" in the slightest, they even call themselves a pop band.
As for the MCR business, what does it matter if people say that about bands, people interpret songs in different ways and it helps them alot, as Fraser said, some people are like that over Girls Aloud whether you want to believe that or not.
Now onto the article, I totally loved it and really agree with most of what you were saying. Really struck a chord! Especially the McFly part haha, so much so I posted it into a bulletin!
Thanks! :P xxx
Lolz.....I liked the 'are McFly a rock band then?' And whoever said about the people all looking the same thing......it's usually true. You can always tell the kids that are going to a Fall Out Boy concert or whatever. I do like them, i'm not slagging them off or whatever, but I admit they usually dress very alike....haha. I try to be different though. I don't just dress in like skinny jeans and converse trainers, I wear different stuff. I once wore this really bright pink skirt.....it was really cool cos I could see people looking at me, and I was like 'Yay! I'm sticking out...I'm truly unique!' That made me really happy despite getting the weirdest looks from people.....like the looks I got that time I got dared by my mate Cazza to stand in my town centre with a sign saying free hugs lolz.....;) That makes me laugh to this day.......
soz ive only just seen the recent comments here..
ok, vicky.. what is pop? pop means popular, so ANYTHING can be classed as pop as long as its liked by enough people. mcfly play softcore rock.. it is also pop. and i was defending mcfly! i dont think i said one bad thing about them! i like them as people, and the fact that they dont care what other people think about them, im just not a fan of their music, 'whether you want to belive it for not'!
and onto girls aloud or whatever. i have never said that they arent good, i cant say it as its against what i believe, even rihanna is good at what she does, i just dont like them. and thats more than youre gonna get out of most people, most people are suck in their ways and think only what they like is good.
and about the whole interperting music thing, fair enough different people take what they want out of music but i dont see whats relevant about 'something kinda ohh' or whatever else, but again thats me, not you. although i am stuck in my ways about music i will accept that others disagree, but dont have a go at me for saying what i think. if people didnt say what they think this blog and many others would be usless, and besides it wold b far less entertaining if everyone was agreeing with the blog.
read comment 10 and youll see why i think music shouldnt just be about making good sounds and looking pretty.
ha ha ha
NothingI hate more than self-righteous people especially concerning subjective topics such as music.
agree with you 100%
and honestly
mcfly ARE a good band
i'm not being another teenie girly boyband fan
they do have actual talent
and write their own songs
play their own music
oh and infuriating rock snobs is fun.
especially the ones that are like "MCFLY KILLED THAT QUEEN SONG!".. er okay mcfly did that song for CHARITY. i think people need to get over that.
oh and brilliant article by the way :)
you know, you actually have this whole 'rocksnob' thing down to a tee!
especially about mcfly, it really infuriates me that people won't appreciate their music JUST because they appeal to youngsters as well as older people.
as a guy from the times interviewing them said recently - they play the job of 2 bands;
a rockband: playing loads of live shows, writing music, playing instruments etc, and a manufactured popband: doing a lot of promotion, going on kids tv shows, etc.
mcfly work way harder than a lot of bands, because they have a tight schedule and they can't simply take like, 2 years to write an album, because they're a abnd that needs to stay in the spotlight.
i just wish the general view of mcfly could be like, okay, they may be a bit uncool (because they go on stupid kids programmes or whatever), but they are good musicians.
not just - oh they're completely crap, they're a kids pop band.
if more people would just open their mind more, there wouldn't even be a problem.
i hope more people start to accept that mcfly really can play live, and deserve a wider acceptance from music fans.
Mcfly ARE extremely good live (i speak from having been to three of thier concerts already this year)
Those stupid enough to slag them off by putting them into the stereotype of previous pop bands who have choreographed dance moves, mime and pretend to play thier own instruments should really know more about what they are talking about before they slate them.
Mcfly are a great band and deseve all if not more credit then they are given already.
Very well written.
I love it.
I've had someone come in once and say
'Thats a good song who is it?'
and when I replay with
'It's McFly'
They always say
'Why do you listen to that crap?'
Erm...you just said you liked it...
I g et so bored with people who listen to the genre of music not the music. And they call themselves 'real music listeners'
x
this is all so true!!
this is the EXACT argument that i would put across to all of my friends who have a go at me for liking McFly! Thanks for saying what i have been trying to explain, and failing to do so, for so long! Why are McFly supposed to be any less worthy than any other band??
:)
I think this is spot on; I used to be rather a rock snob, hating bands like McFly, and turning my nose up at R&B etc. However since going to uni, I've broadened my horizons a lot, and McFly are now one of my favourite bands.
In my experience, nearly everyone that sees them live / a live DVD of theirs, ends up appreciating their talent; in fact, my housemate, when he saw I was watching their DVD, said "Well, they mime impressively". By the end, he'd said "I'm actually really enjoying this..."
I remember coming across this a while back, still a great read.
[aww...thanks Mathew! - Fraser]