鲍鱼tv

EMMA- It鈥檚 our big special day this Saturday, Nikki.

NIKKI- What is it, what is it?

EMMA- It鈥檚 the International Day of People with Disabilities on Saturday 3rd December.

NIKKI- Can we not just call it D-Day, Disabled Day?

EMMA- Yes, please.

NIKKI- I think it鈥檚 catchier.聽

EMMA- D-Day, I think that鈥檚 been used though.

NIKKI- Emma?

EMMA- Yes?

NIKKI- This is unusual for us.

EMMA- I know.

NIKKI- We鈥檙e actually out and about. The bird on the scooter and the blind one.聽

EMMA- We鈥檙e in the world, in the wild.

NIKKI- Stratford.

EMMA- Outside a 鲍鱼tv building. We鈥檙e in a global disability innovation hub.

NIKKI- I know, it鈥檚 quite exciting. I鈥檝e been speaking to people.聽

EMMA- Yes, we do.

NIKKI- I鈥檓 like, 鈥楯ust tell me what do you do, what do you do?鈥� Assistive technology. 聽

EMMA- Which is something you need to learn more about for your bungalow.

NIKKI- If they could get an exoskeleton that would be nice as well, if that was slightly affordable.聽

EMMA- Yeah, and they鈥檝e been telling me about they鈥檝e been working on haptic technology.

NIKKI- What鈥檚 that?聽

EMMA- So, stuff that you can feel under your fingers, it moves around and makes different shapes and stuff, like braille displays, but also they鈥檙e talking about virtual reality and how you can feel 3D objects that aren鈥檛 there, woo, stuff like that.聽

NIKKI- What can you feel?

EMMA- Right now?

NIKKI- Can you feel my scooter arm?

EMMA- I can feel your scooter arm slightly yeah.

NIKKI- And my jacket. And I鈥檝e also got my blazer on because we鈥檙e going to be doing an actual proper professional interview, Emma.

EMMA- The minister Tom Pursglove, and that is what we鈥檙e going to do. Are we going to be on our best behaviour are we, or are we?聽

NIKKI- We can鈥檛 be too bad or they won鈥檛 let us back.聽

MUSIC- Theme.

NIKKI- This is Access All. I鈥檓 Nikki Fox, and today I鈥檓 at the Global Disability Innovation Hub at London鈥檚 Olympic Park.聽

EMMA- And I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and I鈥檓 at the hub with Nikki. Woo-hoo! So, that鈥檚 why this week鈥檚 episode might sound a little bit different.聽

NIKKI- This is your weekly podcast about disability and mental health from the 鲍鱼tv. If you like it then please subscribe, share and tell your friends and colleagues about us.聽

EMMA- Nikki, we鈥檙e in a lab, a sciency techy lab.

NIKKI- I know, it鈥檚 quite exciting. I want them to be 3D printing machines, Em, but I鈥檓 not sure they are. But I did once have my bonce printed. I had a 3D printout of my head.聽

EMMA- Are you going to be one of those famous people who gets like a gold sculpture of their head, their skull?

NIKKI- I don鈥檛 think I鈥檓 ever going to get to that point, Emma, but I appreciate you saying or even suggesting something like that.聽

EMMA- I just think we probably shouldn鈥檛 press any buttons.聽

NIKKI- No, we won鈥檛.聽

EMMA- But I dare you.聽

NIKKI- It鈥檚 all very techy.

EMMA- Are you now in your head going, hmm right button, right button?聽

NIKKI- Well, this is why I started working on checkouts because I wanted to press the tills.

EMMA- Yeah, there you are. So, it came out of the 2012 legacy, this hub. It鈥檚 working with more than 70 partners. 41 countries it鈥檚 in. And it鈥檚 reached 28 million people apparently since launching in 2016. So, that鈥檚 quite a legacy in itself, isn鈥檛 it?聽

NIKKI- Yeah. And also we saw friend of the podcast, Layna Landry here as well. And she鈥檚 actually studying here. I said, 鈥業t鈥檚 very smart, it all sounds great鈥� and then I slumped away because I had nothing to add to the conversation.聽

EMMA- You didn鈥檛 know what she was on about.聽

NIKKI- It鈥檚 like that time when I was at an event and Professor Stephen Hawking asked to speak with me, and I got so nervous that I scootered out of the building with a prosecco and never came back.聽

EMMA- You let Stephen Hawking spend absolutely ages programming in a 鈥楬ello Nikki Fox, how are you?鈥� sentence, and you didn鈥檛 even show up to speak to him?聽

NIKKI- Well, I don鈥檛 know whether he got that far, Em. He probably just went, 鈥業鈥檇 like to meet Nikki鈥� and then I just never showed.聽

EMMA- But he still had to programme in, 鈥業鈥檇 like to meet Nikki鈥�.

NIKKI- Well, yeah, there鈥檚 that.聽

EMMA- So, he had put some work in, just to make you feel, you know.聽

NIKKI- So, he programmes in what he wants to say on his computer, which is something that has been in the news today because the former rugby player Rob Burrow has recorded a bedtime story.聽

EMMA- Ah, a CBeebies bedtime story. Love those.聽

NIKKI- A CBeebies bedtime story, which is brilliant. Didn鈥檛 Tom Hardy do one once?聽

EMMA- He did, and there鈥檚 been one in braille recently.聽

NIKKI- Has there?聽

EMMA- They鈥檙e so famous. They鈥檙e more for parents than kids I鈥檓 going to say, sometimes.聽

NIKKI- Well, they are if Tom Hardy鈥檚 reading.聽

EMMA- Well, yeah. So, Rob has motor neurone disease, and it鈥檚 progressive and he can鈥檛 speak anymore using his vocal cords so he uses some fancy flashy assistive tech, like we鈥檝e got in this room, called an Eye Gaze.聽

NIKKI- I鈥檝e seen an Eye Gaze many times and they are really cool. I watch in amazement every time anyone writes something in an Eye Gaze, because it takes quite a long time to programme in what you want to say. So, I guess he鈥檚 going to sort of have preprogramed everything.聽

EMMA- And then during the recording he鈥檒l sort of Eye Gaze the timing, so Eye Gaze the button that presses for each sentence. I think that鈥檚 probably what will happen.聽

ROB- Even though her world was still a little topsy-turvy Tilda felt she could cope. And because she felt she could cope her world seemed less topsy-turvy. From that day on whenever Tilda鈥檚 world felt a bit wobbly she just tried her best.聽

EMMA- It still sounds automatic. It sounds like it鈥檚 technology, not a person speaking, but is a far cry from the one Stephen Hawking used to use, or the one that Lost Voice Guy, who has also banked his own voice, but he still uses his old one quite a lot as well.聽

NIKKI- Because they did a big thing, didn鈥檛 they, I think it was on the One Show, I remember it was a beautiful film, where they got the people who use that kind of technology to at least have a voice that is in their regional accent. It wasn鈥檛 their voice voice, but it was their accent.聽

EMMA- Lost Voice Guy is Geordie, and Rob Burrow I think is northern England, and they鈥檇 be speaking in the old days in like an American accent or a very posh Queen鈥檚 English, which just doesn鈥檛 represent them at all.聽

NIKKI- Yeah.聽

EMMA- I鈥檓 looking forward to listening.聽

NIKKI- Now, Emma, as always we鈥檝e been getting some more lovely messages from our listeners. These properly make our day, don鈥檛 they?聽

EMMA- Oh, they really do, yeah.聽

NIKKI- So, last week we were talking about the European Space Agency announcing that a British man, John McFall鈥�

EMMA- It鈥檚 very American sounding, isn鈥檛 it?聽

NIKKI- John McFall, as the world鈥檚 first para-astronaut. And if you listened last week you鈥檒l know that I had trouble with that even then. But after that episode we got a tweet from @bladeboyrio, which is brilliant, a young lad from London who has a prosthetic right leg. Now, he acted in a German advert all about an inclusive future, and played an amputee astronaut landing on Mars.聽

EMMA- Woo!

NIKKI- His team, because he鈥檚 a bit young to be on social media, they tweeted us saying, 鈥楥ongrats to John. When Rio played an amputee astronaut in Mission [Zerkumpft] in 2018 he never imagined science fiction would become reality鈥�. Amazing!

EMMA- Amazing. Guess what Nikki?

NIKKI- What?聽

EMMA- I did another one of those secret interviews on my own when you were off filming during the week.聽

NIKKI- Honestly, every time I鈥檓 away, you did Chris McCausland, you鈥檝e done Ellie Simmonds.聽

EMMA- I know, sorry.聽

NIKKI- And now you鈥檝e done the first ever blinking disabled astronaut. What are you trying to do to me, Emma? I鈥檓 very鈥�

EMMA- Well, he was an absolute dream. Absolutely gorgeous man with loads to say, and you鈥檒l be able to hear that interview later on in this episode. Without Nikki. Sorry Nikki.聽

NIKKI- Now back to Earth. Hello darling. We鈥檝e got a Paralympian.聽

SUSIE- Ignore me.聽

NIKKI- I just want to say, your speech was tip top.聽

PRESENTER- We鈥檝e got a few words now from Susie Rogers.聽

SUSIE- My experiences as a Paralympian were incredible. I also went to Rio 2016, I won Gold and two Bronze, it鈥檚 amazing.聽

EMMA- Susie, we鈥檙e recording a podcast.聽

SUSIE- I鈥檓 so sorry for interrupting.聽

EMMA- Can you say hi?

SUSIE- I can say hi. Hi everyone. This is a random interruption.聽

NIKKI- It鈥檚 a random interruption.聽

SUSIE- Very professional, look at this.聽

NIKKI- At the Global Disability Innovation Hub we were listening in on a few speeches, and one of those was with the brilliant Susie.聽

SUSIE- I was a bit controversial. I鈥檓 always controversial. I shoot from the hip.聽

NIKKI- I love that though.聽

EMMA- We鈥檝e just been talking about John McFall. What did you say?聽

NIKKI- I mean, it鈥檚 all great and everything.聽

SUSIE- I mean, it鈥檚 fantastic, great for him, and I think it鈥檚 wonderful that we鈥檙e considering space. But I also think there鈥檚 plenty that we need to be looking at on Earth, and that鈥檚 what I said.

NIKKI- It鈥檚 a bit like, Susie, I鈥檇 like to get up in the morning, I need someone and I can鈥檛 get someone, and I鈥檇 just like to get out of bed if that鈥檚 okay. I鈥檓 not really worried about going into space.聽

SUSIE- I think from my perspective I couldn鈥檛 think of anything worse than going that high up.聽

NIKKI- Oh hell, no.聽

SUSIE- I鈥檓 sure he鈥檒l have a great time. But I just think it鈥檚 a lot of money invested in space. And I was just thinking when you look at assistive technology we could put that money into developing it. But because it isn鈥檛 jazzy and what everyone wants you to do, and it doesn鈥檛 kind of speak to the broader public, then it鈥檚 just ignored, and because it鈥檚 not money making or profit making. That鈥檚 what frustrates me.聽

NIKKI- Well, Susie you would have been one of the very few people that fit the criteria when they were looking, because they were looking for amputees. They weren鈥檛 looking for little old muscle conditions like me.聽

SUSIE- Again, it鈥檚 always like the certain impairment types favoured over others and that kind of thing, which I don鈥檛 think is particularly fair. But good for him. I don鈥檛 want to do that down at all.聽

EMMA- You don鈥檛 want to rain on his parade.

SUSIE- No and I think he鈥檚 phenomenal.

NIKKI- And he鈥檚 an exceptional fella.聽

SUSIE- And he鈥檚 exceptional and I think it鈥檚 phenomenal that they鈥檙e doing it and they鈥檙e being diverse. It鈥檚 the whole thing of people talk about the Metaverse, that鈥檚 great, a Metaverse. It鈥檚 like let鈥檚 just look at the human-verse a bit more please.聽

EMMA- Well, don鈥檛 worry, we鈥檒l be keeping an eye on him.聽

SUSIE- And maybe some of the research and development that comes out of it might be beneficial to the broader disability community.聽

NIKKI- Yeah, amazing.聽

SUSIE- So, there are some potential things around it that are good.聽

EMMA- And just really, really quickly, Susie, what are you working on at the moment?聽

SUSIE- I work at the moment in the government, in the Foreign Office, and I鈥檓 advising on disability inclusive climate action.聽

NIKKI- Amazing.聽

SUSIE- So, I鈥檓 a big supporter of all things inclusive climate change work globally.聽

NIKKI- Well, we need to get you on the pod properly, Susie.聽

EMMA- Will you come back?

SUSIE- I鈥檒l come back. What is this podcast?聽

EMMA- It鈥檚 called 鲍鱼tv Access All.聽

SUSIE- Oh, I love your podcast!聽

NIKKI- Oh!

SUSIE- I鈥檝e just like gate-crashed it?聽

EMMA- Yeah.聽

SUSIE- I鈥檓 so sorry.聽

EMMA- Rightly so.聽

SUSIE- Yes, can I come on? I鈥檒l come on if you鈥檒l have me.聽

NIKKI- I would love that.聽

SUSIE- I would love to come on.聽

EMMA- You just came in to get your bag or something.聽

SUSIE- I came in to get my coat. This was serendipitous.聽

EMMA- Thanks Susie.聽

SUSIE- Let鈥檚 do this again. Enjoy the rest of your podcast.聽

EMMA- Thanks.

NIKKI- Take care sweetheart. Thanks for coming in. That was amazing timing.聽

MUSIC- Access All.聽

NIKKI- Tom Pursglove is in the house. Hello, how are you?聽

EMMA- Nice to meet you.

NIKKI- I鈥檓 Nikki, Tom, and this is Emma Tracey.聽

TOM- Very nice to see you. How are you doing?聽

EMMA- Hi, nice to see you. Good.聽

NIKKI- We are the Access All鈥檈rs.

TOM- Everyone says that this is such a great podcast, so I鈥檓 looking forward to the opportunity.聽

NIKKI- Tom, flattery will get you everywhere.聽

TOM- And then becoming a regular listener. Who knows?

EMMA- Regular listener, regular contributor.聽

NIKKI- Let me introduce you. We鈥檙e joined by the Minister of State for Disabled People, Health and Work, Tom Pursglove. New to the role. Hello Tom.

TOM- Great to be with you.聽

NIKKI- So nice to meet you. Now, we have been trying to pin a disability minister down since we launched Access All back in April. But obviously with all the political turmoil I think you鈥檙e the third person to hold the position since then. Tell me a bit about you. Let鈥檚 get to know Tom.聽

TOM- Well, I am obviously the Member of Parliament for Corby and East Northamptonshire. I鈥檓 a Northamptonshire lad. Was always a keen sportsman growing up. Enjoy spending time with other people. Loves a good chat. You can鈥檛 always win the day, but the reason I got into politics is to try and change things for the better. And sometimes that ends up being a little bit frustrating and incremental and you don鈥檛 manage to get done everything you want to get done as quickly as you鈥檇 like to do it. But for me it is about public service, it is about working hard for people to improve people鈥檚 lives.聽

NIKKI- Disability ministers have, I鈥檝e seen quite a few since I鈥檝e been in the job, what are your particular plans for this role? Where do you want to take it? And also do you want to stick in it for a good amount of time?聽

TOM- I definitely want to have a good run. And obviously that鈥檚 up to the Prime Minister to decide how long you get in any given job. And I鈥檝e had a number of other ministerial roles. But I feel really passionately about this. And I have been so inspired in the first few weeks of this job meeting disabled people in different forums, hearing their lived experiences, hearing their ideas about what more we can do to improve people鈥檚 lives for the better. And I think there鈥檚 a number of areas where we鈥檝e made really good progress; but there is undoubtedly more to do. Government hasn鈥檛 got all the answers, it hasn鈥檛 got all the solutions; we鈥檙e an enabler, we鈥檙e an important part of the jigsaw. But what we鈥檝e got to do is work with disabled people, work with their representative bodies, work with technology companies and so many others, industry and business more generally, as well as public services to drive improvement forwards.聽

NIKKI- One of the criticisms that I鈥檝e heard a lot of, Tom, is the role itself to a degree. So, of course you are across work and benefits and other areas as well, but when it comes to disabled people just wanting to get up in the morning and go to work or social care or accessible housing or healthcare, all these wider issues, it seems more difficult for you to be a figurehead for those. I mean, I know as a reported often if I come to your department I have to go to the other departments to get a response. Do you hope in your role now that you can be a bit more cross-departmental?聽

TOM- Definitely. And I think the join up is what is so important. As ministers I think we all spend quite a lot of time thinking about how we can join things up better and more effectively. And for me the really exciting part of this role is this cross-government element: the fact that there is this opportunity to bring together ministers from across government to make sure that in their departments they act as a figurehead, working with me as the sort of overall in-government figurehead for disability issues and for disabled people as their champion.聽

NIKKI- We do need to talk about benefits obviously. So, the government has obviously announced last month that PIP will be going up by 10.1%, in line with inflation. But in your opinion is that enough? And within the context that rising costs of everything and disabled people bearing the brunt of that. We鈥檝e spoken to so many people in the podcast; one woman who has a daughter with a life-limiting condition, and she can鈥檛 take her out because she can鈥檛 charge the hoist that she needs, she can鈥檛 run her lift, she can鈥檛 do all the four, five loads of washing, she can鈥檛 pay for it all. Are you planning on announcing any more support for people who really need it at the moment?聽

TOM- It is really difficult. The cost of living pressures that people are experiencing are acute. So, I welcome the fact that the Chancellor announced that we would be uprating benefits in line with inflation. But also this wider package of support that we鈥檙e providing in the context of the cost of living challenges: the 拢150 disability payment, those are think are important interventions as part of trying to help support people through this very challenging time, as well as the energy price guarantee. But there were some other interesting and important announcements I would argue in the Chancellor鈥檚 statement. For example looking at social tariffs; for example providing additional support through energy suppliers, and more cost efficient levels for people. But this is really difficult, I鈥檝e got no doubt about that. Which is why it's also, as well as having those structured forms of support, also right that we鈥檝e got that discretionary help that people can access, through the Household Support Fund for example, through local authorities, that can meet needs where perhaps they鈥檙e not met through the more structured package of support.聽

EMMA- People are still saying it鈥檚 not enough though. Are there any other things in train, things that you鈥檙e thinking about that could be brought in? These social tariffs and the grants etc. lots of people don鈥檛 know about them. And even if they know about them someone like me who can鈥檛 see, it鈥檚 such a lot of work and stress on top of a lot of work and stress to apply for these things.聽

TOM- I mean, I am acutely conscious of just what a worry this period is for people. And so I think anything we can do to try and improve signposting to support, to try and improve awareness, I鈥檓 keen to hear ideas. And that is a piece of feedback that over the course of the last week or so I鈥檝e heard loud and clear in a number of meetings.聽

NIKKI- Have you?聽

TOM- And I鈥檝e undertaken very much to take that away and to look at what more we can do to generate awareness. Of course we keep the response under active review to make sure that we try and meet as many of these needs as possible. But I don鈥檛 for a moment doubt how tough this period is for many people. One of the things I really want to do is to look at what we can do to try and build resilience against some of those costs, that sort of longer-term thinking around, particularly given that it鈥檚 so acute now, the cost of living. What learning we can garner from that to make sure that people are more future proof going forward to actually be able to just deal with some of those costs when they arise.聽

EMMA- So, one of the things that is under what you do as employment, we鈥檝e seen so many schemes and initiatives to get disabled people into work and keep them in work. But the employment figures stay around the 50% mark, they鈥檙e still there. What could be done differently? They don鈥檛 seem to be working. What can change? And even when people are in work they鈥檙e struggling with the Access to Work scheme. Where are we here? Why is it not getting better? Because the employment level is so high.聽

TOM- There are many vacancies out there, and I want to help disabled people where it鈥檚 right and it鈥檚 appropriate for them to try and access those opportunities. And I think we have had some real success in recent times. Of course there was the ambition to support more disabled people into work; that ambition to get a million more disabled people into work, that target was met five years early. But we can鈥檛 be complacent about this.聽

NIKKI- Those targets were a little bit dubious though, Tom, to be fair. The benchmark moved a little.聽

TOM- I think we鈥檝e seen real success. And so building on the schemes, Disability Confident has been a success over the years, as have a number of others. Access to Work, I hear lots of really positive reports about the difference that Access to Work makes.聽

EMMA- When people can get the grant.聽

NIKKI- Yeah. I think nobody would argue it鈥檚 a fantastic. It鈥檚 just accessing the bureaucracy that goes around Access to Work.聽

EMMA- Yeah.聽

TOM- So, I think we can do better. Again, very early days in the role, but one of the things that has struck me is what more can we do to try and digitise those processes wherever possible? What can we do to try and minimise delays that people see? And how can we just make it more effective? And really important support that Access to Work provides, whether that be one-off items right the way through to, for example, transport on a day-to-day basis. It unlocked so many opportunities for so many people, but I think there is scope to do better around the way that that system works. And people can be absolutely assured that that is right at the top of my agenda to look at what more we can do.聽

NIKKI- Obviously Tom, to work people need a flat or a house. And when it comes to accessible housing we know that this has been a problem for quite some time. Now, the regulation in London says that 10% of all new homes have to be fully accessible. Why not the rest of the country?

TOM- I know that there have been changes in recent times around design codes, making sure that accessibility is an area that is really focused upon. And I am keen, it鈥檚 exactly the sort of issue that I see the cross-government work that I want to do over the coming weeks and months, as being one that we could focus in on to help encourage the builders of new properties to make improvements and to get them right when they鈥檙e building. That鈥檚 clearly got to be part of the solution.聽

NIKKI- Can we not just tell them?聽

EMMA- Yeah.聽

TOM- But also, for example, Disabled Facilities grants make a massive difference to people in being able to have modifications made that make those properties more accessible.聽

EMMA- If you鈥檙e eligible.聽

NIKKI- If you鈥檙e eligible, that鈥檚 a big one.聽

EMMA- And 400,000 wheelchair users are in unsuitable housing at the minute. Why can鈥檛 the rest of the UK just not be the same as London and have that 10% in place? Why is that just not something that you can just do?

TOM- I can鈥檛 make that policy announcement, but I absolutely undertake to take that away and having a look at it. I鈥檓 looking forward to driving that agenda forward and really making sure that government as a whole is thinking about this all the time.聽

NIKKI- On a theme of working and living, for me to work, and Emma as well, we need support to do that work. And that support comes with some financial help from our local authorities. There is a carer or PA crisis at the moment, and a lot of particularly young working age disabled people are struggling to find that support or to get the financial support to find that support. Is there anything you can do?聽

TOM- This is really good feedback. And we want to make sure that going forward we have a strong workforce. And caring careers are really valuable careers. And I know that ministers in the Department of Health and Social Care are really actively looking at this, what more we can do around supporting carers. But obviously the Department for Work and Pensions has a role in this as well. and promoting those careers, helping people into those careers is something that I want to very much focus on.聽

EMMA- Because we鈥檝e spoken to a lot of ex-carers and people about to leave, and I鈥檓 actually looking for a new home PA at the moment, and there鈥檚 just nobody there because of the wages.聽

NIKKI- But actually a lot of people don鈥檛 know what the role of a personal assistant for a disabled person does. Obviously there is that care element, but it鈥檚 also a different kind of job that a lot of young disabled people are offering. And many have told us that a lot of people don鈥檛 know, and when you say PA they think secretary. And actually it would be quite a good idea to have some form of advertising campaign around what a PA does for a disabled person.聽

TOM- So, again it鈥檚 this awareness point, isn鈥檛 it? And I鈥檓 keen to look at that. I know that you have many listeners.聽

NIKKI- We do.聽

TOM- And this is a really important forum, so please keep in touch. I鈥檓 really keen that we heard those views, that we reflect on those and see what we can do incorporate as many good ideas and suggestions as possible.聽

NIKKI- Well, there you go listeners, send us your emails, your messages, your tweets, what would you like for us to put to Tom? Because we鈥檒l hopefully get to speak to him again sometime soon. Thank you much, Tom, it was really nice to meet you.聽

EMMA- Thank you.聽

TOM- And you, thank you.聽

MUSIC- Access All with Nikki Fox.聽

EMMA- Last week the European Space Agency, or ESA, announced the world鈥檚 first ever disabled astronaut, or para-astronaut. And he鈥檚 here. His name鈥檚 John McFall, and we are so excited to have you with us for a chat, John. Thank you for coming on 鲍鱼tv Access All.聽

JOHN- Thanks very much for having me.聽

EMMA- John鈥檚 diary must be chock-a-block, he鈥檚 a brand new astronaut. And just as we managed to grab him for a chat Nikki鈥檚 out filming. So, I鈥檓 doing this one solo, it鈥檚 just me and you John today. Congratulations first of all. Tell me, how are you feeling?聽

JOHN- I鈥檓 very, very happy. Very stoked. Very proud to have made it through the selection process. But I think primarily probably very, very excited about what the future holds and what this project is going to entail.聽

EMMA- Very tired?聽

JOHN- No, not too bad. I鈥檝e had a few days of rest. I鈥檝e got a family with three young kids, so there鈥檚 not a lot more that鈥檚 more tiring than that.聽

EMMA- That鈥檚 amazing that you鈥檝e got a family with three young kids. I鈥檝e got a family with two young kids and I honestly can鈥檛 even get through a film on Netflix, never mind join a space programme. Honestly. Did you ever, ever in your absolute聽 wildest dreams think that you might get onto a space programme?聽

JOHN- Do you know what, in the first instance my main goal relating to all this was to try and help ESA answer this really sort of ambitious and bold question. Space wasn鈥檛 really on my radar. And when they announced that they were looking for someone with a physical disability to undertake this feasibility project I read the person specification and thought, wow, if I could do it that would be absolutely amazing.聽

EMMA- So, what is it about you that they were looking for and you are bringing to it then?聽

JOHN- That鈥檚 a good question! Throughout the selection process I鈥檝e just tried to be me. Maybe a lot of it stems from the fact that from acquiring my disability and the journey I鈥檝e been on since then I think I鈥檓 very comfortable in my own skin. I haven鈥檛 got anything to prove. I am who I am. But a lot of the interview process is actually accessing your character and how you work with other people and what you鈥檙e like as a person.聽

EMMA- I know from my research that you lost a leg in a motorbike accident, you then were a Paralympian, you then were a doctor. I mean, you talked about not needing to prove yourself; I think you鈥檝e actually proven yourself already, John.聽

JOHN- Certainly in the early days following my amputation a lot of the things I did in rehabilitation and sports and stuff they were all in a bid to try and rediscover that sense of self-identity perhaps. Once I started becoming more comfortable with who I was I was getting into paralympic sports. And it wasn鈥檛 really until I undertook paralympic sport and what I achieved in paralympic sport that I actually realised what I could achieve if I put some effort in and put my mind to it. And I think that gave me a huge amount of confidence in myself, so that when I was coming towards the end of my athletics career and I thought I can鈥檛 be an athlete forever, but I looked at what really, really interested me and I looked at medicine, obviously went on to become a doctor, and then embark on orthopaedic surgical training. So, I think though that process I developed that confidence and that reassurance that if I put the effort in I could probably do it.聽

EMMA- Can you tell me what the selection process was like? You mentioned that there鈥檚 quite a lot of interviewing, but you also said that there were some tasks that you had to do.聽

JOHN- Yeah, so the selection process applied to absolutely everybody who applied. So, the astronauts with the physical disability were tested in parallel to the astronauts without a physical disability. The testing compromised six stages: the first stage was the written application. And that鈥檚 probably more the black and white side of things. You have to have particular academic qualifications. You have to be able to qualify for the medical for a private pilot鈥檚 licence. And then you also had to write a motivational letter, sort of like a personal statement type thing, and submit a CV. And that was the very first stage of selection, so not in person but purely online, and then you submit that application. And from that they then whittle down the numbers quite significantly from that. I mean, there were probably in total 22,500 people who applied at that stage, and then they took about 1,300 or 1,400 through to the first stage of, if you like, face-to-face testing. And that was quite black and white as well. you go to Hamburg and you do a day鈥檚 worth of quite arduous and rigorous academic tests, aptitude tests, psycho motor tests, attention tests, reaction tests, all sorts of things like that. And that鈥檚 relatively binary: you either pass that or you don鈥檛.聽

Stage 3 is a psychological stage where it鈥檚 a day of one-to-one interviews with a clinical psychologist, followed by panel interviews, and some team tasks with your fellow candidates. And then if you passed that you then went on to the medical stage. And that鈥檚 relatively straightforward because it鈥檚 beyond your control. And that鈥檚 a week of medical testing, lots of eye tests, physical tests, just to make sure that you are healthy as a candidate, because you鈥檙e quite a significant investment.聽

You鈥檙e then invited to the fifth stage, which is more like I guess what people find analogous to a proper job interview. You're sat down and you鈥檙e given these scenarios and you鈥檙e really probed and questioned about who you are and what you think and feel about the job and the role of an astronaut at the European Space Agency, what you would explain to people in wider situations and difficult questions.聽

And finally if you were successful in that you then went on to be invited to an interview with the director general of the European Space Agency himself.聽

EMMA- Wow.聽

JOHN- So, I went through all those six stages.聽

EMMA- That鈥檚 a lot. They鈥檝e really invested a lot in this. They must be going to send you to space. I mean, they鈥檙e talking about a feasibility project; what do you think that鈥檚 going to involve? And how likely and how quickly do you think you might get on a space mission?聽

JOHN- Well, ESA have said that they鈥檙e committed to trying to get someone with a physical disability, it will be the first agency to get someone with a physical disability to work in space. And this is really the first step in trying to achieve that. And I think the difficulties that we鈥檙e facing in the first instance are: what are the technological and scientific barriers to achieving that? And that鈥檚 what the feasibility project is going to address. The timeframe is yet to be really confirmed, but it鈥檚 probably going to take place over the next couple of years really. And then once we know the results of that feasibility project we can then look at whether it is feasible to get someone with a physical disability to join the other astronaut colleagues to work in space.聽

EMMA- What are the barriers? What do you anticipate the barriers being?聽

JOHN- Things like what about the spacesuits for doing EVA, so those are the activities on the outside of the spacecraft, if you鈥檙e going to be doing maintenance say for example on the ISS. Or what about if聽 you鈥檙e going to do all your land-based training on Earth, it鈥檚 a lot of underwater stuff, neutral buoyancy things? What about the spacecraft that you鈥檙e going to be sent up into space in; are there any medications actually inside the spacecraft that need to be adapted? Is it safe for you in an emergency to get in and out of the space module? And also, probably one of the most significant questions is, do you wear a prosthesis in space, don鈥檛 you wear a prosthesis in space? And if you do how does that need to be adapted to do exercise, for example running on a treadmill in space, and all sorts of things like that? So, those are the sort of questions that we鈥檙e going to be looking at and addressing.聽

EMMA- I鈥檓 blind. Do you think I鈥檇 ever be able to go to space?聽

JOHN- Well, that鈥檚 a really good question. I think that鈥檚 something that鈥檚 really in my mind obviously about this is I am obviously a single person with a single disability, and I think it鈥檚 important to try and consider as many disabilities when doing this project so that it is more reflective in ways of the disabled population as a whole. And I think being a doctor and having that medical background will help me bring some of that knowledge and maybe float some of those questions and look at what we can do going forward.聽

EMMA- John, what ages are your kids? And what did they think? And what did your wife think?聽

JOHN- As we鈥檝e gone on this journey together she鈥檚 only ever become more and more supportive and more and more proud really. As for my kids they are absolutely stoked. I could say over the moon, but that would just be quite cheesy.

EMMA- Aha. What age are they?聽

JOHN- My son is nine, my oldest daughter is eight, and my youngest daughter is five and a half.聽

EMMA- Oh wow, what perfect ages, when you鈥檙e so excited about these things. Oh my goodness. And one of the questions I reckon they鈥檙e going to ask you will be, being an amputee do you think weightlessness is something that will be quite interesting to you? We spoke to the mission Astro access guys in the US, one of them was an amputee. What鈥檚 your take on it? I mean, we鈥檙e talking about balance I guess?聽

JOHN- I鈥檓 very fortunate, I don鈥檛 have a lot of issues with my stump and pressure sores and stuff like that anyway. Obviously in weightlessness you鈥檙e not really faced with that. I think one of the interesting questions is as an amputee do you wear a prothesis in space. Technically for ease, I鈥檓 an above knee amputee, I鈥檓 a through knee amputee, so I鈥檝e not had any bone cut but I鈥檝e not go a knee, so I鈥檝e had a knee disarticulation, which is similar to an above knee, same type of prosthesis. The fluid within your body shifts into lots of different spaces when you鈥檙e in micro gravity, and so my residual limb would swell. And in terms of coming back down to Earth and rehabilitating following a mission it would be useful to be able to continue to wear a prosthesis and not have to wait to control that swelling and stuff. So, I would probably think that I would look at wearing some sort of socket in space certainly. I was talking to Tim Peake the other day and he was saying, 鈥榊eah, it鈥檚 really interesting鈥�, we were talking about wearing a prosthesis in space and he was like, 鈥榊eah, actually when we鈥檙e up there we use our feet to anchor ourselves, we hook our toes under rails and on lips of equipment, and also we kind of clamp ourselves and use our feet when we鈥檙e outside the spacecraft, so actually wearing a prosthesis might be useful in the spacecraft鈥�.聽

EMMA- Is there a prosthesis now where you could hook your toes and move toes? Like one of these whizzy ones with the USB port in it.聽

JOHN- I鈥檓 sure there are plenty of whizzy prostheses out there. But I think it may well be a custom made thing. And it would depend on what I鈥檓 required to do and what the architecture of the craft I鈥檓 in will allow me to do.聽

EMMA- Oh John, this has been an absolute joy. We鈥檙e called Access All, our podcast, and I reckon that should include space now, seeing as that鈥檚 an option. So, will you be our resident para-astronaut/disabled astronaut? Will you come back and speak to us again about it and keep us updated about how you鈥檙e getting on? Would that be okay?聽

JOHN- I鈥檇 love to.聽

NIKKI- Thank you so much for listening today. That was slightly different for us, wasn鈥檛 it?

EMMA- It was, lots of people moving around, lots of background noise. It keeps us on our toes, I would say.聽

NIKKI- I know. I quite like that though, Ems, I quite like that. So, obviously we had our chat with the new minister, so please do send us any questions or messages, WhatsApp鈥檚, whatever you like.聽

EMMA- I think people might have a few things to say after the old minister interview.聽

NIKKI- Yeah, so email us, go on, accessall@bbc.co.uk. And if you grab your phone open WhatsApp put the number in and save it, and drop us a voice note message on WhatsApp, or an actual message message. Our number is 0330 123 9480.

EMMA- Put Access at the start.聽

NIKKI- Access at the start.聽

EMMA- And Twitter if you鈥檙e so inclined, social media, is 鈥� oh my goodness, what is it?

NIKKI- Oh thanks guys. You can tell we鈥檙e not in our own studio with our own nice comfortable set up.聽

EMMA- @AccessAll on Twitter.聽

NIKKI- That鈥檚 it, thanks everyone. We鈥檙e going to leave the GDIH, the Global Disability Innovation Hub. Thank you so much for listening, guys.聽

EMMA- Bye.聽

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