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As a new Tate exhibition of paintings puts the work of Swedish painter Hilma af Klint alongside modernist giant, Piet Mondrian. Both were painters fascinated by esoteric and occult ideas that became more marginal with the ascendancy of modernism. Matthew Sweet and guests discuss these abstract art works, theosophy and a search for the spirit world.

Nabila Abdel Nabi is co-curator of Hilma Af Klint & Piet Mondrian: Forms of Life runs at Tate Modern in London

Jennifer Higgie is the author of The Other Side: A Journey into Women, Art and the Spirit World

Daniel Birnbaum is a Swedish art curator and an art critic. Since 2019, he has been director and curator of Acute Art in London

Sarah Kent is an art critic

Producer: Ruth Watts

Hilma Af Klint & Piet Mondrian: Forms of Life runs at Tate Modern in London from April 20 - September 3 2023
You can find a series of Radio 3's The Essay: Artists and the Spirit World written and read by Jennifer Higgie available on 鲍鱼tv Sounds /programmes/m001323q