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IN TOUCH 鈥� Barriers to Travel

TX:听 24.05.2022听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听 BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.听 Tonight, as promised, some of the barriers for visually impaired people to travel confidently and what can be done to remove them.听 For instance, why taking your guide dog abroad has suddenly become more expensive and unpredictable.听 And why after being promised assistance to get to your flight some travellers find themselves sitting and sweating in limbo.

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Clip

I鈥檝e never felt so totally helpless, if you like, because your only point of reference is the wretched blue seat.

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White

All tonight鈥檚 stories come directly from listeners, like this first one, prompted by an email from Doremy Vernin.听 She says: 鈥淚鈥檝e learned through a friend that the travel requirements for guide dogs going abroad has become very expensive.听 Basically, a new pet certificate for every journey costs at least 拢110 each time.听 Surely that has to stop.听 Adults鈥� passports last for years with changing hairstyles ignored.鈥�

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Well, the introduction of pets鈥� passports over 20 years ago certainly did make a major difference to guide dog owners, for whom, up until then, it had been pretty much impossible to take their guide dogs abroad.听

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So, what is happening and why?听 Chris Theobald of the charity Guide Dogs is the senior campaigns manager.

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Chris, first of all, just explain what are these changes and what鈥檚 caused them?

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Theobald

When the UK left the European Union, after the transitional period had ended, most of the UK was no longer part of the pet passport scheme.听 So, you used to be able to get your pet passport and as long as your rabies vaccination was up to date for your dog and also you鈥檇 had the tape worming treatment, you could go abroad with relative ease.听 Now, however, the UK attempted to apply for a status that鈥檚 held by some other European but non-EU member countries and that was declined by the European Commission.听 And so, every single time a person travels from Great Britain 鈥� so England, Wales and Scotland 鈥� to the European Union they will need to get an animal health certificate each time they travel, which, as you say, is costly.听 It鈥檚 a little bit different for Northern Ireland 鈥� they remain a member of the pet passport scheme 鈥� but there鈥檚 the potential for the same requirements to be applied when travelling to North Ireland from Great Britain.

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White

And what about the issue of cost?听 I mean is this more expensive than what you would have to have done before because you still needed a pets鈥� passport?

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Theobald

Yes, it is more expensive than before because you need to get a new animal health certificate for every time you travel.听 The animal health certificates can only be obtained a certain period before you travel and they鈥檙e only valid for a certain time after they鈥檝e been issued.听 So, you can鈥檛 just get one for the beginning of the year just in case you need to travel at short notice, for example.听 And also, the costs are really variable.听 So, you have to obtain one from an official veterinarian, which is a veterinarian which has undertaken qualifications to carry out certain tasks, so not every vet.听 And there isn鈥檛 actually a cap on the costs of these animal health certificates and so we have heard of animal health certificates costing in excess of 拢250.听 And anecdotally we鈥檙e aware that some vets have stopped issuing them because of the complexity and the cost of it.听 We鈥檝e been working with the UK government since the referendum to highlight these issues and in the Northern Ireland Department for the Environment and we鈥檝e been communicating with the EU.听 So, we do appreciate it鈥檚 a very complicated area 鈥� UK/EU relationships 鈥� this is part of a much wider issue.听 But, nevertheless, this is something we continue to emphasise because without being able to travel with guide dogs many people wouldn鈥檛 be able to travel at all, it鈥檚 impacting on people鈥檚 work, their family life.听 We鈥檝e been consistently emphasising the very different and unique role that guide and other assistance dogs play, it鈥檚 not comparable to other items which, unfortunately, they鈥檝e been caught up in all these debates around importation of goods, which we don鈥檛 think is appropriate.

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White

And just one more thing 鈥� have you been talking to the vets about this?

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Theobald

I know some of my colleagues are in contact with the veterinary sector and we have strong relationships and we work with them on a number of different issues.听 As one of the largest breeders of dogs in the world, as well.听 The main thing, though, is whilst the cost of animal health certificates is a deep concern, if we actually had part one listed status there wouldn鈥檛 be a need for them, so it would mitigate that entirely, which is our preferred option.

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White

Chris Theobald, senior campaigns manager for Guide Dogs, thank you very much indeed.

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Well, someone whose work is being directly affected by these changes is David Adams, President of the European Federation of Guide Dogs.听 David told me about the implications of these changes for him on his work.

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Adams

We have members in 25 countries across Europe, so I have to visit them or other associated agencies from time to time.听 I sometimes have to go to Europe three times in a month and with these new regulations that is totally impossible because the vets need 10 days clear notice to prepare the form, takes them a couple of hours, costs an arm and a leg and you can only do a maximum of two a month, if you do everything else perfectly correctly.

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White

Well, you say an arm and a leg, can you tell me what it is costing you?

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Adams

Well, it starts around 拢150 per trip.听 You can only use it once.听 When you come back it鈥檚 voided and you have to start again.听 So, it鈥檚 a minimum of 拢150 and then on top of that, there鈥檚 no regulation to the fee, so it could be as much as 拢250 I鈥檝e heard.

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White

And you argue that this is a human rights issue, rather than simply a negotiating issue between the UK and the EU?

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Adams

Absolutely right.听 The United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities basically says we should be treated as any other person, which is quite reasonable.听 But with this, when my friend in France died, his funeral was seven days later and I鈥檝e known this guy 40 years, I couldn鈥檛 be there to comfort his widow, it was impossible to do it because of the time constraints.

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White

What are you being told by Defra and the disabilities minister about what can be done about this?听 I mean, presumably, you don鈥檛 question the importance of protecting the UK from the reintroduction of rabies.

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Adams

It鈥檚 the other way round.听 We can always come back to the UK, it鈥檚 getting out to Europe that鈥檚 the problem.听 Defra鈥檚 just basically says we鈥檙e stuck with the agreement we鈥檝e been given.听 To me, it鈥檚 a crazy situation.听 Defra is looking at it as a veterinary issue and we鈥檙e looking at it as a human rights issue.听 It鈥檚 like saying you can鈥檛 go unless your wheelchair鈥檚 been oiled and then inspected by an engineer for your wheelchair or your walking stick has a rubber nub on the end.听 But here we have a dog that鈥檚 been trained, that鈥檚 been tested, is perfectly secure from a veterinary point of view and the only test we have to do, apart from this animal health certificate, is to get a worming treatment before we come back to the UK to make sure we don鈥檛 bring anything in from Europe.

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Now Defra told us: 鈥淲e鈥檙e continuing to press the European Commission to list the UK as a part one third country for the purposes of the EU Pet Travel Scheme.听 What that would mean is that the EU animal health certificates would not be required and these costs could be removed.鈥澨� And they say: 鈥淲e don鈥檛 want to see assistance dog users having to pay high prices.听 It鈥檚 for individual veterinary practices to set their costs and the government doesn鈥檛 have a role in that.鈥澨� What would you say to that?

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Adams

Well, it鈥檚 a 14-page form, it diverts vets from their proper job of looking after animals and it鈥檚 only reasonable that they charge for what they do.听 The point is that, as far as I鈥檓 concerned, they should not be doing it.听 We used to be a part one country, nothing鈥檚 changed except Brexit happened and it鈥檚 like we鈥檙e being punished.

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White

David Adams, President of the European Federation of Guide Dogs, thank you very much indeed.

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So, on this question of filling in these forms to get your animal health certificates we are joined by Justine Shotton, who is President of the British Veterinary Association.

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Justine, I mean do you accept that there are real difficulties for guide dog owners in actually getting these forms filled in?

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Shotton

Yeah, absolutely, it鈥檚 a real challenge and we can completely empathise with these owners and the amount of time that vets and the owners are having to put in to these repeat certificates for multiple travel.

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White

What is the problem with these forms?

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Shotton

Well, they take a lot of time, they鈥檙e often in dual languages.听 The vet has to be an official veterinarian, as they also did for the pet passport scheme.听 But it鈥檚 not a case of just checking the microchip, ensuring the vaccinations are up to date, appropriate worming and flea treatment etc. and stamping and signing the passport.听 It鈥檚 really a case of going through in extreme amounts of detail.听 When they first rolled them out there were changes, it was a new form, vets are becoming increasingly familiar with them, which is fantastic and hopefully, that will help speed this process up.听 But, unfortunately, it鈥檚 not really within the vet鈥檚 power to make them any easier, they are predetermined and they have to fill them in, in the level of detail and ensure they鈥檙e perfectly correct.听 Each form might be slightly different and we need to make sure these animals are not being held up when they鈥檙e travelling, so the vets really need to spend a lot of time getting them perfect.

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White

But on this question of cost, who fixes the prices for getting these forms filled in?听 The government says it鈥檚 down to individual veterinary practices.

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Shotton

Yeah, so it鈥檚 up to the individual practice to set their fees, as it is with any sort of veterinary treatment, based on their staff costs, their overheads, the sort of practice they are, the amount of time it takes, what other procedures they might have to sacrifice to do these forms etc.听 So, there is no real set fee.听 Some practices are actually so busy at the moment with other sort of animal clinical cases that they鈥檙e having to turn these sorts of certification work away just to deal with the volume of work, the general dog and cat care, at the moment.

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White

So, that is happening, people are 鈥� you are hearing of people who are saying we just can鈥檛 do this?

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Shotton

Yeah, unfortunately, the profession is under a lot of stress at the moment because of the number of new pet owners, for example, and just the volume of work plus, you know, real problems with the workforce in our veterinary profession.听 So, our advice would absolutely be to guide dog owners and pet owners, in general, if you鈥檙e going to be travelling do contact your vets well in advance to make sure that they can do this and they have the capacity, talk about costs, go through all of that, so you can make sure you鈥檙e best prepared and you鈥檙e not going to be turned away.

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White

So, people could be paying up to 拢250, is that true?

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Shotton

It may well be.听 Like I said, it does depend on the individual practice and the amount of charges that they will charge depends on the amount that they鈥檝e got to cover.听 So, unfortunately, there鈥檚 no sort of set fee for this sort of thing.

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White

Do you think these forms need to be quite this complicated?

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Shotton

Well, I mean I鈥檓 sure our profession, as well as the guide dog owners, would love if they were simpler or if we had something like the pet passport scheme and the vets do not enjoy this sort of certification work, like they do the clinical work really, it just makes everyone鈥檚 life a bit more difficult than it used to be.听 But, unfortunately, that鈥檚 not within our control or really even our government鈥檚 control.听 But it sounds like that the work that they鈥檝e been doing with the lobbying and getting that part one third country status could be a really good positive way forward.

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White

Justine Shotton of the British Veterinary Association, thank you very much indeed.听 And just to emphasise, the Guide Dogs Association strongly urge guide dog owners to contact either an official veterinarian or Defra if they鈥檙e in Great Britain, if in Northern Ireland they should contact the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs.

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But whether you have a guide dog or not airports are very daunting places to navigate 鈥� noisy, endless queues, things on different levels, multiple gates.听 I would say that making it to the plane is virtually impossible without some sighted assistance.听 Now this is something which is provided at airports but how they deliver it varies and all too often we hear cases like the one Mel Griffiths has been telling me about, which happened to her earlier this month.

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Griffiths

Myself and my husband are both totally blind so we booked special assistance for our holiday to Tenerife.听 We arrived at Birmingham Airport, we arrived at the special assist desk, all was fine.听 We were taken through check in very easily with a guide and also through security, that was very, very easy.听 However, once we got to the other side of security, we were asked to sit on the blue seats, it was very definite they were blue.听 And I actually asked the gentleman guiding if he could direct me to where the nearest toilets were, at which point he said no, his job was to take me to the blue seats.听 He said, that somebody would be with us an hour before our flight time.听 So, our flight time was, as far as we were concerned on the Tui app, it was 3.15.听 So, we were expecting somebody to come for us at 2.15.听 Two fifteen came and went.听 Two thirty came and went.听 Two forty-five came, at which point we thought we need to be a bit proactive about this.听 We actually ended up calling Tui and they did actually give us a number for the special assistance desk at Birmingham which we rang but it just rang out.听 But the real problem when you鈥檙e sitting in the seating area is there鈥檚 no information desk and there are no announcements, so you have no point of reference to get any information for yourself.

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White

Presumably you said when you were dumped on the blue seats, if there鈥檚 a problem what can we do?

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Griffiths

I did, I asked if there was a number I could call if anything went wrong and he just said no, there was a definite no, there was no 鈥� no conversation, no assurance, it was just no, there鈥檚 no number.听 So, at quarter to three we decided enough was enough.听 I managed to accost somebody who was having quite a lively conversation and they were able to point me out a member of staff.听 Now this guy was actually a plumber and a total life saver, he wasn鈥檛 airport staff as such, although he was working in the airport and he took us to the gate.听 And what really upset me, when the gate opened and we started to move forward, we got to the desk and one guy said to the other guy 鈥� how did they get here, well we鈥檙e not trained to help them.听 I鈥檝e never felt so totally helpless, if you like, because your only point of reference is the wretched blue seat and just waiting there to be at the total whim of somebody else.听 To me was 鈥� oh I鈥檝e never been stressed in a travel situation, ever.

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White

Have you complained to Birmingham Airport?

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Griffiths

I haven鈥檛 spoken to them yet, although I do believe they are wanting to speak with me and I will speak with them and explain how I felt, certainly.

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White

Well, we have approached Birmingham Airport to invite them on to the programme to explain what went wrong.听 They said, and I quote: 鈥淎fter careful consideration we鈥檝e decided not to put someone up.鈥澨� They go on to say: 鈥淲hile pleased that they successfully made their flight on May 1st, we鈥檙e concerned to hear that Mrs Griffiths is unhappy with the service she and her husband received.听 We鈥檇 welcome a chance to speak with her, better to understand how we could improve our assisted travel service.鈥澨� But they do say: 鈥淭he scheduled departure time for the flight was 10 minutes after Mrs Griffiths said and was showing on the board as a 1545 departure.听 The assigned agent arrived in the seating area at two minutes to three, 33 minutes before the boarding gate for the flight opened, giving ample time to ensure that Mr and Mrs Giffiths were boarded first.鈥�

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What do you say to that?

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Griffiths

This holiday was booked for 2020 and obviously for all the reasons that everybody else鈥檚 travel was cancelled ours was cancelled and I was absolutely determined I needed to be on that flight.听 To come at two minutes to three for what we believed was a 3.15 flight is too late.听 I鈥檓 not prepared to just sit there and hope that somebody will come for me.听 And the fact that there was information on the board didn鈥檛 help me, there was no information for somebody who is blind.

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White

They maybe making the assumption that people can get that information on a smartphone?

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Griffiths

Well, the only information we had was on the Tui app which actually said that the flight was 3.15.听 Now, this is one thing I want to investigate, whether there are smartphone apps that will give live airport departure and arrival times, this is something I will certainly look into for next time we travel because when you鈥檙e sitting on a seat with just noise and bustle and no information it feels like almost sensory overload with nothing useful.

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White

Mel Griffiths, thank you very much indeed.

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And that鈥檚 it for today.听 We welcome your views, of course and comments about anything you hear on the programme, including your airport experiences.听 And next week we鈥檙e going outdoors 鈥� gardening as a hobby, an interest and also pursuing an interest in wildlife when you鈥檙e visually impaired, for instance, identifying birdsong, any tips?听 Email intouch@bbc.co.uk, leave voice messages on 0161 8361338 or go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch.听 From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers Jonathan Esp and Nat Stokes, goodbye.

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