鲍鱼tv

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

听

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.听 BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 鲍鱼tv CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

听

听

IN TOUCH - Audiobooks

TX:听 11.01.2022听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

听

PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听 BETH HEMMINGS

听

听

听

White

Good evening.听 Tonight, what I hope is going to be a feast for book lovers.听 This is the latest in our occasional series where we invite avid readers to share a favourite book.听 And if you think that sounds a lot like Radio 4鈥檚 A Good Read, a series I love, by the way, I make two points:听 first, we鈥檙e concentrating on audiobooks; second, we鈥檝e been using this format since the 1990s.听 In any case, what鈥檚 wrong with copying a good idea?

听

So, to this week鈥檚 book choosers.听 First, Richard Lane, former press officer, long time freelance journalist and, from tomorrow, a wine educator with the Wine and Spirit Education Trust.听 And also, Fiona Dunn 鈥� a musician, songwriter and currently training as a Methodist preacher.听 So, we have a preacher and a teacher.听 Two potential In Touch items in themselves as well perhaps.听 But today it鈥檚 the books we鈥檙e looking at.

听

Fiona, what have you chosen and why?

听

Dunn

I鈥檝e chosen Lost for Words by Stephanie Butland.听 She鈥檚 an author I hadn鈥檛 heard of but I often look at the Kindle and Audible deals and I noticed this title 鈥� Lost for Words 鈥� and I thought that sounds intriguing.听 It鈥檚 about a woman in her mid-20s, she works in a bookshop and loves books, so it鈥檚 a great title for a programme about books, as well, I thought.听 I also love it because we鈥檙e reading an audiobook about this, these bookshops can be accessible to us in the book, in a way that they鈥檙e not in real life.听 We hear the story from the point of view of the main character, she tells us the story, and her life is very complicated.听 She鈥檚 called Loveday, which is a Cornish name.听 And gradually, as the book goes on, we find out that she ended up in care and, as the book goes on, we find out why that was.听 And that explains a lot about why she can be quite prickly.听 But her perspectives on various things change as the book goes on.听 And it just beautiful writing.听 The clip I鈥檝e chosen is her talking about the type of customers she gets in the bookshop.

听

Clip 鈥� Lost for Words

Book inquiries tend to fall into four categories.听 The first is the misremembered/inaccurate: 鈥淚鈥檇 like a copy of Any Which Way but Loose by William Shakespeare please.鈥澨� Could you mean Much Ado About Nothing?听 鈥淣o, I don鈥檛 think so, it鈥檚 a play.听 Could you look in the drama section?鈥�

听

The second is the you鈥檝e got to be kidding me.听 鈥淭here was a book I read in 1974 or 鈥�75, it was a love story set in America, I think, or Australia.听 Do you have it?鈥�

听

The third is book request of the week.听 鈥淚 heard this programme on Radio 4 and it mentioned a book about Pythagoras or maybe Prometheus.鈥�

听

And the fourth is the sort of inquiry you can really get your teeth stuck into because it means tracking down something that鈥檚 hard to find.

听

White

The great thing about this book, as you said Fiona, is that it absolutely speaks to book lovers but there is also this question of the kind of secret that gradually becomes unwound as the book goes on.听 Because you鈥檙e now walking the tightrope that we always walk with this kind of programme, which is how much do we tell people and how much do we not give away.听 It鈥檚 always a bit tricky isn鈥檛 it.

听

Let鈥檚 bring in Richard because, as we鈥檙e going to find out, this book is very different from the one you鈥檝e chosen, so what did you make of Lost for Words?

听

Lane

I just loved this book.听 I hadn鈥檛 come across Stephanie Butland before and neither Imogen Church.听 By the way, I do apologise, slightly croaky voice today but what a wonderful book what a gem of a book.听 Sometimes when I think about the narration for an audiobook, I kind of dread sometimes an actor taking on the role and sort of enacting it but with Imogen Church, I felt like listening to a film starring Imogen Church as Loveday.听 Beautiful reader.听 And I noticed, I looked her up, I noticed her Instagram handle is Imagenchurchgobshite鈥�

听

Dunn

[Laughter] Brilliant.

听

Lane

鈥�which is rather lovely but I digress.听 But the actual book, it鈥檚 not just a fluffy story about a lovely sounding second-hand bookshop in York with its large armchair blocking the fire escape and its remarkable characters like Archie the owner, Loveday鈥檚 boss.听 All the characters, there aren鈥檛 many characters in the book, but they鈥檙e so beautifully etched.听 One of the really clever things about this book is there鈥檚 so much beauty in the book, there鈥檚 beauty in the writing, beauty in the other characters 鈥� not all of them, there鈥檚 some flawed characters, obviously as well 鈥� but Nathan鈥檚 too good to be true, there鈥檚 鈥� must mention Rob, the strange character Rob, pushing flowers through the door of the bookshop鈥�

听

Dunn

Know he鈥檚 been dumped ages ago, yeah.

听

Lane

Even though he鈥檚 been dumped by Loveday, there鈥檚 that whole thing going on.听 What I think works so well in this book is the brittleness that is Loveday, it鈥檚 a sort of juxtaposition, isn鈥檛 it, against the kind of fuzziness and the loveliness of Archie and the kind of romantic sound of this second-hand bookshop in York and I think that makes it work really well.听 And it creates quite a lot of tension actually in each chapter of the book.

听

White

We should also say it鈥檚 very funny.听 When I was finishing this book at one o鈥檆lock this morning, I sat up and laughed out loud.听 She was describing a woman eccentric dresser and she said 鈥� she came in, she was wearing DMs with a 1980s shot silk dress with a tear in one sleeve, sort of Miss Havisham doing the gardening.听

听

Dunn

Yeah, it鈥檚 brilliant, isn鈥檛 it?

听

Lane

Yeah, just wonderful writing, wonderful images.听 And I think for the non-sighted, especially, us obviously, I think it鈥檚 so vivid.听 And what I also love is the irony, as you mentioned Fiona, we鈥檙e talking about a bookshop and physical books, the feel and smell of books and here we are listening to it as an audiobook and I feel sorry for people who read this book, who don鈥檛 listen to Imogen Church because Imogen is so amazing.

听

Dunn

It鈥檚 also emotional, a good book will make you laugh and make you cry and this book certainly made me cry in places.听 I mean there are places where she talks about, for example, a poetry book that brings back memories of her childhood before everything went wrong.听 And she says of these memories 鈥� they catch you, paper cuts across the heart.听 Beautiful.

听

White

I鈥檓 going to have to stop you there because we won鈥檛 get time for the other two books.

听

It鈥檚 time for my choice.听 My choice is not so much one book, although I have chosen one, but it鈥檚 a big hurrah for a crime fiction series, which, it seems to me, has gone under the radar.听 I鈥檓 sure real crime fiction afficionados know of John Harvey鈥檚 Resnick books but his copper, his policeman, isn鈥檛 mentioned in the same breath as Rankin鈥檚 Rebus, Rendall鈥檚 Wexford, PD James鈥� Dalgleish, Morse 鈥� I could go on.听 And I think that John Harvey should be.听 It鈥檚 hopeless to try and summarise a crime book without doling out loads of spoilers.听 So, I鈥檓 not even going to attempt that.听 Except to say that Charlie Resnick鈥檚 beat is Nottingham, Cold in Hand, which is the one I鈥檝e chosen, deals with youth gang warfare there, sadly still very much on the news agenda.听 But what really appeals to me about this series is Resnick himself and all the things that he isn鈥檛 and in a way what he鈥檚 not is contained in this short extract.

听

Clip 鈥� Cold in Hand

For several minutes they ate in silence.听 Chet Baker faded into something more sprightly.听 Bob Brookmeyer and Jimmy Giuffre, playing Louisiana, an old favourite Resnick hadn鈥檛 listened to in years.听 The youngest of the cats was hovering hopefully beneath the table, rubbing its back from time to time against one of the legs.听 鈥淭his is good,鈥� Resnick said, indicating his plate, 鈥溾��don鈥檛 sound so surprised.鈥澨� 鈥淚 didn鈥檛 mean鈥︹�澨� 鈥淵es, you did.鈥澨� He grinned.听 鈥淚鈥檓 sorry.鈥澨� 鈥淪o, you should be.鈥�

听

White

Beautifully read there by Nick Bolton.

听

So, Resnick is not a serial drinker, he鈥檚 not a serial womaniser, he鈥檚 in a stable relationship, he鈥檚 a jazz lover, he鈥檚 a cat lover.听 I just think Harvey鈥檚 books are beautifully plotted, they鈥檙e real, they have a sense of place and it鈥檚 just a shame that only a handful of the 12 of the Resnick novels are on audiobook.听 So, Richard, what did you think, have I got John Harvey a new fan?

听

Lane

I liked it to a degree.听 I鈥檓 not quite as enthusiastic as you, Peter.听 I mean it鈥檚 not a genre I often immerse myself in, so that鈥檚 probably my fault.听 But I did enjoy it, the longer the book went on.听 And certainly Resnick, as you鈥檝e indicated, is low key and perhaps I wanted a bit more of Resnick at the beginning of the book.听 But then, as you said, this is a series, so if you鈥檙e reading the series by the time you鈥檝e got to this one, you know pretty well who Resnick is.听 I just felt, listening for the first time, I needed to get to know him a bit better.听 It鈥檚 interesting, because the female characters, I thought, were very much stronger, in a way, or certainly more clearly defined, perhaps, than Resnick.听 There鈥檚 an ambiguity about Resnick.听 I鈥檓 not saying that鈥檚 a bad thing.听 But plot wise and structure wise and pace wise, yes, you do go through the gears.听 I just felt, initially, as though I was watching a very long or listening to a very long episode of Line of Duty to begin with but overall, I did enjoy it, but it took me a little while to get going.

听

White

Fiona, what about you?

听

Dunn

Oh, I loved it. 听But then I love thrillers and police books and things like that anyway.听 And it turned out I had actually heard another book from this series on the radio a few years ago, they played it on, I think, it was called 鲍鱼tv 7 back then, it鈥檚 Radio 4 Extra now. 听And they had a great theme tune that I remember it went [singing] 鈥� 10 more wasted years 鈥� because it was called wasted years and it was lovely.听 If I鈥檇 known then that this was a series, I鈥檇 have looked for them ages ago, so I was really happy when you recommended this book.

听

White

Right, that鈥檚 my frustration, we鈥檝e had Rebus, we鈥檝e had Morse, we鈥檝e had Wexford, they鈥檝e all had big TV series and I just think that this is in the same class.听 It鈥檚 the understatedness that I absolutely like about it.

听

Dunn

Yes.听 Something horrible happens and I don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 a spoiler to say that something horrible happens part way through this book and Resnick cries, he鈥檚 not one of these, you know, stone male characters who doesn鈥檛 feel, like you get in some of these books, he鈥檚 a normal person.听

听

White

Yeah.

听

Lane

I鈥檓 sorry a bit of a tedious technical point but, again, this is one of the frustrations of audiobooks sometimes.听 The navigation on this book is not easy on Audible, you know the chapters skip when you鈥檙e listening don鈥檛 match the chapters in the book.听 If you do lose your place and you want to chapter flip back using the audio controls on the Audible app, they鈥檙e out of sync with the actual chapters and that鈥檚 just something annoying.

听

White

We found that when we were trying to find the right clip to play, how difficult it was.听 So, I think you make a very fair point.

听

Richard, I鈥檓 going to stay with you for your own book, your own selection.听 Now you鈥檝e chosen a famous author, John Le Carr茅 but not one of his spy novels.听 So, tell us more, tell us what you鈥檝e chosen and why.

听

Lane

I鈥檝e chosen The Pigeon Tunnel:听 Stories of my Life written and read, thank goodness 鈥� I鈥檒l explain why in a moment 鈥� by John Le Carr茅.听 And I only started reading Le Carr茅 four years ago and I鈥檝e only read six or seven out of his 30 or 40 titles, so I鈥檓 not a Le Carr茅 expert.听 But what I loved about this book, it was just a real treat because he has had a most extraordinary life.听 It鈥檚 not an ordinary autobiography that starts at the beginning and ends at the end, it鈥檚 really a collection of short stories 鈥� novellas, if you like 鈥� of his life.听 He鈥檚 also incredibly honest, he鈥檚 narrating this book at the age of 84, a couple of years before he dies, and he says: 鈥淚 hope I鈥檓 remembering this correctly鈥︹�� because it鈥檚 what is pure memory, it鈥檚 so difficult to know whether what you鈥檙e saying actually happened or not.听 So, he鈥檚 upfront about that but he certainly hasn鈥檛 deliberately invented things.听 But also, this was the guy, remember, who ran away from school to get away from his father.听 He was courted and recruited into the intelligence service in the late 鈥�50s, early 1960s.听 He then left the intelligent service to become an author and became a successful author because of The Spy Who Came in From the Cold 1963, so he became successful quite early on.听 Maybe 10 years later, when he became really, really famous again, with Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy.听 And that鈥檚 the turning point in his life actually, from that point on he became an adventurer which often took him into war zones and all the rest of it and this links to the little clip we鈥檝e got to hear because there are four extraordinary consecutive chapters in the middle of his book where he鈥檚 based in Beirut in the early 1980s with the Israel/Lebanon war going and he鈥檚 based there because he wants to know what it鈥檚 like, both from the Palestinian/Arabic perspective and he also crosses over into Israel for the Israel/Jewish perspective.听 And when he鈥檚 in Beirut, he stays in the Commodore Hotel in Beirut where all the hacks and journalists and war people hang out.听 And as the clip鈥檚 about to tell us, there鈥檚 one very important person in charge of the hotel.

听

Clip 鈥� The Pigeon Tunnel

Its most revered resident was an elderly parrot named Coco that ruled over the cellar bar with a rod of iron. 听As the techniques of urban warfare became ever more sophisticated, from semi-automatic to rocket propelled from light to medium or whatever the correct vocabulary is, so Coco updated his repertoire of battle sounds to a point where the uninitiated guest, grazing at the bar, would be roused by the whoosh of an incoming missile and a shriek of 鈥淗it the deck, dumb bastard, get your arse down now.鈥澨� And nothing better pleased the war weary hacks returning from another hellish day in paradise than the sight of some poor neophyte disappearing under a table while they go on sipping nonchalantly at their mahogany whiskies.听

听

White

It鈥檚 such a great mental picture, isn鈥檛 it, you can actually hear it.听 Before you come back, Richard, I want to bring Fiona in, at this point, because I loved this book because I鈥檇 read a lot of John Le Carr茅 and I don鈥檛 know whether you have Fiona, so I wondered what you made of it.

听

Dunn

More I鈥檝e heard dramas or watched dramas.听 There was a Radio 4 series of all the Smiley books, which I remember getting gripped by and things like The Night Manager were on the telly.听 At the beginning I was struggling with it a bit but as it went on, I couldn鈥檛 put it down.听 And I do love that bit about the parrot, it鈥檚 fantastic and it鈥檚 interesting that all the clips we鈥檝e chosen are quite funny, I think, but it鈥檚 amazing鈥�

听

White

They鈥檙e the ones that stay with you aren鈥檛 they.

听

Dunn

I think either the funny ones or the really moving ones, yeah.听 I find it really interesting.听 But it鈥檚 good in some ways in that you can dip in and out of it because they鈥檙e short stories, as Richard said.听 But at the start I was struggling with that a bit, there wasn鈥檛 an impetus to go 鈥� ooh what鈥檚 going to happen next 鈥� because it would be a different story, if that makes sense.听 And it鈥檚 actually made me want to get some of the other novels actually and read them.

听

White

Well, that鈥檚 the idea of this programme or part of the idea of this programme.听 Richard, I loved it because I鈥檝e read quite a lot 鈥� I鈥檝e probably read actually more than you have 鈥� and it unfolds so many things in the novels that I didn鈥檛 understand.听 But there鈥檚 an interesting thing about Le Carr茅 which is that it seems he almost can鈥檛 not write like a Russian doll, even when he鈥檚 writing fact, you never know quite what you鈥檙e reading, you never know quite where it鈥檚 going to go.听 And there鈥檚 always a plot within a plot within a plot, even when he鈥檚 talking about his own life.听 Did you find that?

听

Lane

Absolutely, Peter, because I read your book and I read Fiona鈥檚 book, more recently, because I thought I knew this book, so I quickly re-read this book to remind myself and I thought I was almost reading another book because Le Carr茅 is an exquisite writer, his concision is unbelievable.听 But it鈥檚 dense, Le Carr茅鈥檚 writing is dense.听 So, it鈥檚 easy to miss stuff, isn鈥檛 it?听 What I really, really love about it most of all is it鈥檚 a very human book, he doesn鈥檛 set out to be some sort of huge personality or celebrity, he talks about his failings as a father and as a husband and how difficult he can be and his memory and all the rest of it but what he is in search of, all the time, is truth.听 And there鈥檚 this real kind of, I suppose, pathos with Le Carr茅, there鈥檚 integrity.听 And I think it鈥檚 so important that we are listening to his book read by him because his beautiful elderly voice gives an extra note of integrity, not that it really needed it.

听

White

So, the idea of the author reading the book, that works for you?

听

Lane

In this case.

听

White

Yeah, yeah.听 And you Fiona?

听

Dunn

Yes, it works definitely for me 鈥� John Le Carr茅 reading it 鈥� but I wouldn鈥檛 say that means authors should always read their own book because some authors are better at that than others.

听

White

I鈥檒l tell you a funny story about this very quickly because we almost have to end but actually about 20 years ago, I think it must have been, I went to interview him about exactly this point 鈥� should you read your own book 鈥� and actually he was in real doubt about whether he should or whether he shouldn鈥檛.听 In this one 鈥� The Pigeon Tunnel 鈥� I think he鈥檚 much more convincing and it is his age, I think, and the gravitas in the voice that really makes it work.

听

So, that鈥檚 it, we have been talking about The Pigeon Tunnel by John Le Carr茅, we鈥檝e been talking about Cold in Hand by John Harvey and we鈥檝e been talking about Lost for Words by Stephanie Butland.听

听

And that鈥檚 it for today.听 Many thanks to Fiona 鈥� Fiona Dunn 鈥� and Richard Lane for steering us 鈥� me at least 鈥� to books that I might never have read otherwise.听 And we welcome your picks of audiobooks that you鈥檝e particularly enjoyed from whatever source you choose.听 You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk or you can go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch from where you can download tonight鈥檚 and previous editions of the programme and get links to the three books that we鈥檝e mentioned.

听

From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers Mike Smith and Jonathan Esp, goodbye.