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Final Countdown Quiz
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
Adamant and President are unusual vessels. What is unusual about them, which one is a Josher, and which is two half Joeys?
A short explanation of what a Josher and a Joey are would be much appreciated -
Message 2
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
I feel like a cross between a rabbit caught in the headlights and a cadet sitting an exam at Dartmouth in a cold sweat and wishing that they'd done a lot more revision.
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Message 3
Posted by Meles meles (U14993979) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
My thoughts exactly. At least with Host Katy the quiz started off easy - this time it seems we are straight into the semi-finals of the Round Britain Quiz. And as usual UR you've made it virtually un-wikiable and un-googleable - as if I would ever use such base methods.
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Message 4
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
Nevertheless I'm going to make a stab at it.
The use of the present tense 'are' and 'is' would suggest that Adamant and President are still in existence. I'll guess that a Joey is a nicknane for a Royal Australian Navy vessel and so 'two half Joeys' must be a ship which is made up of 2 former Australian vessels. A sort of 'cut-and-shut'.
Is President two half Joeys? -
Message 5
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
U-L
They are both steam-powered narrow boats, now preserved in working order.
President is the josher - a boat built by Fellows, Morton and Claytons (Josher from Joshua Fellows)
Adamant is the "two half joeys" as she was reconstructed from the hulls of two barges. I believe joey was the nickname of boats built by a Birmingham company, but I don't know why.
The only reason I know any of this is because I came across a picture ofAdamant while looking for info on the Adamant Engineering company in Luton!
LW -
Message 6
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
Well done LW… the only place I’ve seen ‘adamant’ written on anything, I’m sure was ceramic urinals… and when urgi was talking vessels… well you can imagine... i thought it was another of his shabby tricks.
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Message 7
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
U-L
They are both steam-powered narrow boats, now preserved in working order.
President is the josher - a boat built by Fellows, Morton and Claytons (Josher from Joshua Fellows)
Adamant is the "two half joeys" as she was reconstructed from the hulls of two barges. I believe joey was the nickname of boats built by a Birmingham company, but I don't know why.
The only reason I know any of this is because I came across a picture ofAdamant while looking for info on the Adamant Engineering company in Luton!
³¢°ÂÌý Spot on ,LW. Joeys were Birmingham Canal Navigation Co boats, mostly dabinless & towed in trains by tugs. President is owned by the Black Country Museum, a few miles up the road from me.
Away you go! -
Message 8
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
U-L
Fascinating where research leads you. By the way, if anyone does know anything about Adamant Engineering from 1936-1960, I would be very interested.
Question:
Women in the Services in WWII were almost all paid on the "5/8ths Rule" - they received only 5/8ths of the rate for rank and specialisation paid to men.
However, one highly-qualified group was paid exactly the same as their male counterparts. Who were they?
Cheers
LW -
Message 9
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
I’m sure I saw on a recent TV prog there were women bomb disposal operatives… could it be they…?
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Message 10
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
bandick
If there were, they should definitely have got equal pay! But I am afraid it is a different group.
LW -
Message 11
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
Hmm..perhaps this is trickier than I thought.
The women were professionals, and in the case if the Army, were enrolled in the relevant regular Corps, not the ATS. -
Message 12
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
That won't help much, either.
The women were from one particular profession, and in the Army joined the Corps relevant to that profession.
What was it? -
Message 13
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
For a long time, post war, until the Navy allowed women to join the RN rather than the WRNS, dfemale doctors and dentists actually joined the regular service. Could this have been a continuation of wartime practice?
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Message 14
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
U-L
Bang on. They were the only women directly employed by the parent service, and the only ones paid the same rate as the men.
Nurses, who were the only women service personnel in peacetime, incredibly had a fight to get commissioned status to match the wartime-only temporary general service officers.
Back to you.
LW -
Message 15
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
Anyone else care to set a question as I've already had a go?
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Message 16
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Saturday, 10th December 2011
If I may, on just passed anniversary of Pearl Harbor:
what were the three major mistakes made by the attacking Japanese force, according to Admiral Nimitz? -
Message 17
Posted by Meles meles (U14993979) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
I don’t know what Nimitz actually said but I would guess he highlighted as the three critical Japanese mistakes of the Pearl Harbour attack as:
the failure to find and attack the US carriers – instead concentrating on the (largely obsolete) battleships,
the failure to target the submarine fleet – which as German WW1 experience had shown would be vital in blockading Japan,
the failure to target the shore installations and in particular the huge oil storage yards – without which the US fleet would have been unable to operate for many months.
Anywhere near?
Meles -
Message 18
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
Strewth… this was on the TV just a few nights ago… the world at war… again. I really should take more notice. Methinks one remark was that some ships were sunk in shallow water and therefore able to be salvaged…
And the attack was on a Sunday when most of the crews were ashore. -
Message 19
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
And the attack was on a Sunday when most of the crews were ashore.Ìý
True, but it was precisely because it was Sunday that the ships were in port.
I'll go with the oil storage, plus the repair facilities - weren't all the Battlewagons except Arizona salved and returned to service? and the failure to re-strike.
I don't think the carriers being absent can really be classed as a mistake - more of a misfortune. -
Message 20
Posted by Meles meles (U14993979) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
True, the absence of the carriers was probably just bad luck for the Japanese - if they had been there they would have suffered along with the battleships. But finding that they were not there the Japanese did nothing to try and locate them - perhaps swayed by their overwhelming but miss-placed confidence in the might of the battleship.
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Message 21
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
Actually, the failure to re-strike and the repair of the damaged vessels probably contributed to the signal at Midway "There is need of a re-strike" which left the Japanese carriers so vulnerable when the USN's dive bombers showed up, and the second wave were on deck, with torpedos and anti-shipping ordnance sculling around loose.
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Message 22
Posted by Mutatis_Mutandis (U8620894) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
Actually, the failure to re-strike and the repair of the damaged vessels probably contributed to the signal at Midway "There is need of a re-strike" which left the Japanese carriers so vulnerable when the USN's dive bombers showed up, and the second wave were on deck, with torpedos and anti-shipping ordnance sculling around loose.Ìý The second wave was not on deck: It was below deck, fully armed and fuelled. The decks had to be kept free because the carriers were launching and recovering fighters, and it was Japanese doctrine to prepare the strike below deck and then range it. The results were of course catastrophic when American bombs exploded on the hangar decks.
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Message 23
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
True, but it was precisely because it was Sunday that the ships were in port.
I'll go with the oil storage, plus the repair facilities - weren't all the Battlewagons except Arizona salved and returned to service? and the failure to re-strike.
I don't think the carriers being absent can really be classed as a mistake - more of a misfortune.Ìý Yep, this is as close as it gets - sorry for the delay, folks.
Nimitz had it in this order:
1. Sunday was the wrong day to attack, since it minimized casualties (crews were largely off to shore on leave)
2. Dry docks were not hit at all, which allowed the Navy to repair repairable fleet on sight instead of towing it miles away in vulnerable situation
3. Strategic fuel storage was not hit at all. -
Message 24
Posted by Meles meles (U14993979) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
Well done Ur-Lugal.
I’m a bit surprised Nimitz didn’t think it a major mistake of the Japanese to leave the US submarine fleet intact - but maybe that’s me thinking with the benefit of hindsight.
Btw, didn’t Nimitz also say, in a rather disparaging way, that the US had been very lucky because US naval intelligence was poor and the reaction to whatever they had was sloppy. Had Admiral Kimmel known the Japanese were approaching he would probably have sailed out to meet them with the battleships but no air cover – the result would have been the same except that out at sea the ships would be sunk in deep water and so unrecoverable and the loss of life would have been many, many times what it was. -
Message 25
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
When did the British first plan a carrier-borne air strike on a major enemy harbour? Indications of the principal vessel (and aircraft type) would be illuminating for other posters, but aren't specifically required.
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Message 26
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
Can I have two goes…? Does Peenamunde have a harbour… that seems a likely candidate… or somewhere in Norway… I can’t think of an early carrier aircraft other than a swordfish… but, its only guesswork and I’m always wrong.
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Message 27
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
Hi Ur,
I've been too busy to notice this.
I'm fairly sure it was for Wilhelmshaven in 1919, using Sopwith Cuckoos from HMS Furious.
T -
Message 28
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
U-L
A bit evil, this one.
25th December 1914, against Cuxhaven.
The target was the airship sheds, with the intention of destroying the Zeppelins before they could bomb England (the RN expecting them to target naval assets). It was thus not only the first air attack mounted from the sea, but also the first example of what airpower buffs call "Offensive Counter-Air" - an attack on enemy air assets on their own bases.
The aircraft were Short seaplanes, carried by HMS Engadine, but launching from the water.
LW -
Message 29
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
U-L
A bit evil, this one.
25th December 1914, against Cuxhaven.
The target was the airship sheds, with the intention of destroying the Zeppelins before they could bomb England (the RN expecting them to target naval assets). It was thus not only the first air attack mounted from the sea, but also the first example of what airpower buffs call "Offensive Counter-Air" - an attack on enemy air assets on their own bases.
The aircraft were Short seaplanes, carried by HMS Engadine, but launching from the water.
LW
Ìý Yes, that's the one! Triceratops fell into my trap - I was expecting someone to think of the Wilhelmshaven plan - BTW the carriers would have been Argus, Furious (at least as a launch platform, I doubt if the Cuckoos would have fancied landing-on through the turbulence on her aft flight deck), and, if she ahd been worked up in time, Vindictive (the forgotten carrier) -
Message 30
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Sunday, 11th December 2011
U-L
Fa too cunning. But a key operation in the development of airpower.
Different sort of mindbender:
Richard Todd famously appeared in the film "The Longest Day" having also taken part in the original airborne operation.
Which actor in "A Bridge Too Far" had similarly taken part in Operation Market Garden?
LW -
Message 31
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Monday, 12th December 2011
Always willing to humiliate myself with ignorance… Dirk Bogart (dont know his real name) must have been one of the eldest members of the cast… so I’ll go with him… (wrong again)
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Message 32
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Monday, 12th December 2011
Bandick, nothing to do with the quiz but have you seen Triceratops messages about the new place on Historium.com? If you want to join us over there, read them and come over. There's a pub set up already and since it's a 24 hour site, it would suit your night time habits!
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Message 33
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Monday, 12th December 2011
Oooh yes please. Methoughts were I was perhaps a bit too rude (at times) and far too stupid to enter a place like that… I promise to behave though… honestly I do ma’am…
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Message 34
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Monday, 12th December 2011
Good stuff. After you have registered, Triceratops will send you a PM there inviting you to join the Exbeeb group. See you in the pub!
Please don't behave too perjinctly , you'll be among friends. -
Message 35
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Monday, 12th December 2011
BTW Bandick - I reckon you've got the answer right as well. I've signed up for Historum as well
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Message 36
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Monday, 12th December 2011
I’ve signed up... do I now wait for a bolt of lightning... for future enlightenment...
Does Ur lugi mean I got one right… I cant believe it… I’ve been waiting LW to confirm or not.
I’m a bit worried about jumping the gun here... but on the off chance and to keep the quiz going.
What was the original title of Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’… and who now owns the rights. -
Message 37
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Monday, 12th December 2011
Bandick, Trike has sent you the invite over there so you can come right on in when you respond to it. It's getting busy there.
Hereword's Englishistory board is really good as well. I think I'll do a fair bit on there but mostly socialise on the Historium one. We'll be able to still have our quiz there as well so you and I can continue to punch the air shouting YES when we know an answer. -
Message 38
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Monday, 12th December 2011
bandick
I will assume you meant Dirk Bogarde (although I like the idea of a Dirk Bogart - Humphrey's more talented brother?)
And you are right. Capt Derek van den Boegarde was an intelligence officer at HQ 50th Division. This may explain why he looks uncomfortable in some the more historically dubious scenes.
He was the only Brit or American lead actor in the film to have served in WWII. Interesting, Hardy Kruger had been conscripted into the SS in 1944, although he maintained he was nowhere near Nimjegen that September,
Apologies for delay in replying -I had expected to be in most of the day, but was unexpectedly delayed.
Over to you.
Cheers
LW -
Message 39
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Monday, 12th December 2011
I’ve signed up... do I now wait for a bolt of lightning... for future enlightenment..Ìý
Trike has sent you a invitation bandick, on the top right hand side of the Historum screen you should see either the words "notifications" or "private messages" with a 1 beside it. That means you have one message from Trike, just click on it and follow the instructions to join.
And hurry up! There will be a green top waiting in the bar. -
Message 40
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Monday, 12th December 2011
Oh deep joy... jubilations and gum drops... I shall go see. Thanks.
I really can’t believe I finally got one right...
I just hope my question is up to the task... -
Message 41
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Monday, 12th December 2011
You are in bandick, well done! Now you have to put up a photo of yourself for your avatar.
Only joking, don't panick.
I hope you are you coming over too Longweekend? -
Message 42
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Monday, 12th December 2011
islanddawn
I have registered, but I have employed a different user name (all Weekends have to end some time, even Long ones).
Be interesting how long it takes for someone to spot me (shouldn't be difficult)
LW -
Message 43
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Monday, 12th December 2011
DirtyWeekends perchance...
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Message 44
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Monday, 12th December 2011
LW,
Are you Greenshoots? -
Message 45
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Monday, 12th December 2011
Bandick,
There you are. Ferval told me you were lost. -
Message 46
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Monday, 12th December 2011
Nah… although there’s probably some that’s disappointed… I’m still here.
Where’s the bar over there, I need some ice cool green top cow juice… -
Message 47
Posted by Meles meles (U14993979) on Tuesday, 13th December 2011
Dirk Bogarde was the only Brit or American lead actor in the film to have served in WWII. Ìý
... and the music (for which he was awarded a BAFTA) was scored by John Addison who was a tank commander in during Overlord. -
Message 48
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Tuesday, 13th December 2011
Am I likely to go down in ±«Óãtv’s history on its history board as the last person to set a question on the quiz…
Or… was it too easy and unworthy, or not of good taste… I shall repeat… just to keep the thread alive…
What was the original title of Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’… and who now owns the rights.
meles... i cant even place the theme tune, would i find it on utube. -
Message 49
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Tuesday, 13th December 2011
MK's original title was along the lines of "My 5-year battle with stupidity, treachery, and a failure to realise I should immediately be given supreme power"
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Message 50
Posted by bandick (U14360315) on Tuesday, 13th December 2011
Not quite Ur… along those lines, but not quite.
'My 4 & 1/2 Year Struggle, against Lies, Stupidity and Cowardice' was the original title, the first part of which he wrote while imprisoned in Landsberg jail following the 1923 Beer-Hall Putsch.
By the time the first volume was published on 18th July 1925 the title had been changed to Mein Kamf (My struggle) by Max Amann his publisher.
With sales of over 5 million copies by 1939 Hitler had become a millionaire, and by 1945 it had sold over 10,000,000 copies, outselling only to the bible.
In 1934 Hitler made declarations to an income for 1933 of 1,232,355 marks, however greed obviously getting the better of him and with an official salary of 60,000 marks per annum, the tax on 600,000 marks mostly from the royalties of his book was never paid.
He received a small percentage of every postage stamp sold bearing his image. Today, the rights to Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ are owned by the Finance Amt Bayern. (Bavarian Finance Office)
Anyway… over to you… you can go down in history on the history board.
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