England lack winning formula
Both Andrew Flintoff and Ricky Ponting insisted before the that its outcome would have no bearing on the Ashes series.
From England’s point of view, it is just as well.
Defeat almost irreparably damages their hopes of progressing to the semi-finals, while their performance further underlines their status as rank outsiders for next year’s World Cup.
England lack most of the ingredients of a powerful one-day side: a strong and settled top three; a reliable and flexible middle order; a late order hitter capable of turning or winning a game; a quality spinner; a match-changing bowler; and some canny new ball bowlers.
They should be a little stronger in the Caribbean where Marcus Trescothick will come back, and Andrew Flintoff’s bowling will provide balance and a cutting edge. But the team lacks depth, experience and sufficient match-winners. Once Flintoff and Kevin Pietersen were dismissed, their batting toil was predictable.
The Australian bowlers responded to England’s positive start by tightening up their line and the discipline of their five-man pace attack was impressive. Not a single wide was bowled between the 13th and 42nd overs as England were strangled on a slow, low pitch.
Contrast that with the efforts of Steve Harmison, who came on first change with Australia 57-3. Two more quick wickets and England were in the game.
Instead he haemorrhaged runs immediately with some wayward bowling. Suddenly the pressure on Australia’s middle order evaporated and they won at their leisure.
If the result has little bearing on forthcoming events in Australia, then of more relevance were some individual performances. Harmison in particular, continues to give cause for concern while James Anderson is shaping up well.
Ian Bell, who struggled to come to terms with the furnace of the last Ashes series, played England’s most fluent innings here. He had the chance to go to Australia with a really significant score behind him, but became too ambitious with the power play overs running out.
Mitchell Johnson demonstrated Australia’s likely approach against Pietersen. A short ball, which Pietersen struggled to deal with, followed by one pitched up just outside off-stump brought him the wicket and it will not be the last time that tactic is tried in the coming months.
Glenn McGrath’s figures were tidy, but he posed little threat in his opening spell. Only when he came back with Australia in control was he able to exert an influence.
There was some encouragement for England supporters who hope that 'Mr 5-0' will not be the force he was following his long lay-off, but it is too early, and unwise, to write him off now.
Johnson and Shane Watson, meanwhile, are strong contenders to play in the first Test in Brisbane on 23 November.
Johnson has a fluent, economical run and action and he bowls at round 85 mph. He is not going to frighten anyone but he will provide variation and footmarks on both sides of the pitch for Shane Warne.
Watson has the potential to surprise batsmen. Two of his wickets came from short balls on a sluggish surface and if he is providing runs at number six, his bowling could be a useful addition.
Cant see England improving even when Trescothick,Vaughan et al come back to the squad..they always seem a very deflated team when they come on the field for One Dayers
Complain about this postIt seems to me that we need Geraint Jones back as wicket keeper, even if it is only for limited over games; he is a better batsman in these games than Read is currently. Also, how can we really expect Freddie to score big runs if he is still not match-fit?!
Complain about this postEnglands's inexplicable collapse from 83 for no loss to 169 led to their demise. Poor shots by Flintoff and Pietersen did not help their cause. England bowling lacked penetration and except for Mahmood and Anderson it was pretty shoddy. England have to improve by leaps and bounds if they are to be competitive in next year's World Cup.
Complain about this postregardless of today's performance here are a few of my thoughts.
after the clamour for read's inclusion in englands test and one day sides,i hope these same people realise what a bunny he is with the bat and no better than jones.yardy,dalrymple,mahmood and read himself are not international class and will always be found out by the top sides.
panesar is a must for both formats of the game.there is no use being able to chip in with 20/30 runs if you offer no threat as a spinnner.panesar has proved that he is england's most potent spinner and should play.
also what a waste to bat colly at six.he should bat at four as he can occupy the crease and rotatate the strike like no other player in england's side.
i really fear for the side in the ashes.all the good work of the last few years seems to be going to waste.
Complain about this postDon't forget the horrid misuse of Collingwood at 6...
Complain about this postWhat about Paul Collingwood? I have not found him mentioned anywhere on the ±«Óãtv web site. If only we had one more batsman that can stick around in the middle order we would be more competitive in ODIs.
Complain about this postSo all in all, it was well played Australia, and familiar depressing stuff from England, such as we've grown used to in recent years. However, let's not forget that England have bounced back before: didn't someone predict that Australia would win the last Ashes series 5-0 (some Aussie called Glenn???). And didn't England "only" draw with Sri Lanka before thrashing Pakisten 3-0 (2-0 if you ignore that forfeited test)? So Australia must be favourites for the Ashes - but don't write England off just yet!
Complain about this postThe side is certainly inexperienced but I don't think there is alot wrong with it. Now is the time to keep with the likes of Yardy, Dalyrymple, Read, Anderson so they get the necessary experience in time for the world cup. We would achieve nothing by chopping and changing the team.
Complain about this postDespite Mahmood bowling better than he has for a while he still went at nearly 6 an over. He is too expensive for 1 day cricket. As for Harmison...enough said, Lewis should be given a go, he was Englands best bowler against Pakistan in the summer so will someone please tell me why he is not playing? It all stinks, I would have thought Freddie should know better, stop picking your mate and pick the best man for the job.
Complain about this post1.Mitchell Johnson did not bowl flat out. He bowled faster in Kuala Lumpur and is holding back for the Ashes.He has more class than Watson whose 1 dimensional bowling will be seen through in Tests.
Complain about this post2. Harmison is not a ODI player and the sooner England realise it the better. He is best used only in Tests.It is not necessary for every good test player to be also a good one day player and vice versa.
This odi form is going worse and worse, we need to improve, and quick!!!!
Complain about this postEngland's one day problems start with the domestic system: we should only have Twenty20 and 50 over cricket. The professionals say they like 40 overs, but international cricket is 50, and playing 50 overs at domestic level will give better preparation for internationals than 40. Not enough people in the country care about one- day cricket; it may have got stale, but it still is important in world cricket. Yes, the Ashes is hugely important, but I feel that the World Cup is just as important as there are other great sides, and not just Australia. As far as the current England team goes, they don't have a gameplan batting first. Bell and Strauss assessed the pitch well and applied themselves, the others didn't. The danger of sending both Pietersen and Flintoff one after the other was shown today; maybe send Collingwood up to keep the score ticking over. When Trescothick comes back, Bell should go 4 between Pietersen and Flintoff. And as for Harmison, he's got to get his act together; I think he can be a better one day bowler than he is at the moment. England's one day team is not that bad when you have a fully fit Flintoff and Tres. They just don't have a gameplan. Maybe it's time for a specialist one day coach, and let Fletcher concentrate on the Test side.
Complain about this postSo England crash to defeat, but can anyone say they were honestly surprised? Even at 83-0, the bookies had Australia marginal favourites. Once Pieterson and Flintoff fell, was 200 ever reachable? I severly doubt it.
Complain about this postI think England presently has no plan for any ODI match. They are neither able to score runs nor take wickets. Their main players - Flintoff, Pietersen, Harmison have not shone at all. That is like half of the English team given their records and experience. Comparing the players of England with those of Australia, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka or South Africa, it is clear that England lacks experience. And another cause of this "chaos" is England (both the team and fans) have half their minds thinking of Ashes. So how will they concentrate on ODIs? It is well known that one must concetrate on the job at hand to do it well. Oh, if at all that simple thing is clearly understood. Their is no hunger for success in ODIs. Perhaps England should play only Ashes (only Tests) and forget everything else. Even as Kenya is only ODI team, England must be stripped of ODI status and given only Test status as they anyway lack motivation to do well in ODIs.
Complain about this postwhat no commen t about Yardy's figures. I'd say 10 over for 18 runs in one day cricket is pretty good and in some respects better than any of the scores in double figures. In one day cricket you do not have to bowl sides out. Pin them down so they are behind the run rate and wickets will come. At the end of the day it is the side with the highest total that wins is it not.
Complain about this postTo come to your points on a match winning ODI team, i couldn't agree more. Spinner: well, not like we don't know who can fill that role. New bowlers: A certain bowler from Bristol should, and could have been trusted.
As for the batting issues, merely re-arranging the order would be a start. Open with Flintoff or Pietersen, and you've got an aggressive start, with Strauss as the rock of the innings. Bell can fit in at 3 to support the openers, should one drop. Then Pietersen and Collingwood start the middle order, with Collingwood given the time to do what he does best: bat out one day games. Dalrymple provides some runs at the end with Flintoff if he comes in later, then Read can show himself off in a way that'll give Fletcher no choice but to switch gloving allegiances.
Pah, get it right selectors. Get it right.
Complain about this postOnly one way that England will perform well in coming Ashes & also in world cup to play complete thier side including Vaughn, Trescothick,Simon Jones & offcourse Giles.
Complain about this postIf they all play together including Freddie & Pieterson they will challenge all the sides in the world whether it is Test cricket or a One day. Though England's record was not special in One day recently but my suggetion is England will have same sides both in tests & one dayers. If they can do in this world cup they will hard to beat. My England's best 11 in one dayers is.
1. Trescothick
2. Straus
3. Vaughn
4. Pieterson
5. Flintoff
6. Collingwood
7. G.Jones
8. Giles
9. Simon Jones
10. Harmison
11. Anderson
If you are talking world cup the best team is probably Tres, Bell, Struass, Pieterson, Colly, Flintoff, Dalyrmple, Yardy, Foster, Lewis (assuming S Jones not fit) and Anderson. Harmy doesn't have his heart in ODIs so should be kept for tests alone. Mahmood will make the squad. Broad too perhaps. Cook is the only one with enough class to be a reserve batsman. Its not a bad squad but I would not fancy it to win. Tresco may not be the batter he was even if his head gets in gear. Yardy and Dalyrmple contribute with the bat but are often too slow and neither poses enough wicket taking threat with the ball (query whether Broad might replace one of them). England have hapless ODI tactics.
Thing are not so well set for the Ashes. The only good to come out of today was the mediocrity of McGrath early on. If he plays he may actually pose limited threat to the top order. Johnson is a find. Not a world beater but good quality and England often lose wickets to decent left armers
Complain about this postWhy do they pick Steve Harmison for 1 day matches? He has lost England 2 games with his wayward bowling.Jon Lewis was an obvious pick.
Complain about this postAll the qualities needed to be a great one-day side (those stated by Simon) are possessed by Essex and I think England are missing a trick by not selecting the whole Essex side - well some of them at least! England missed this trick when Glous were the best one day side but now Essex have that mantle I think the selectors couldn't do any worse than to look in the Essex direction
Complain about this postI can only repeat my suggestion before this game: Jon Lewis should have been picked instead of Steve Harmison. It is not going to happen now, but it is hard to see what good this kind of game is going to do for Harmison's form and fragile confidence. He is getting very few overs, so one cannot say that he is getting match fit and the few overs that he is bowling are disappearing for a huge number of runs.
There are some clear positives so far. Jimmy Anderson is demonstrating that his form and confidence are back. Sajid Mahmood is showing that he could develop into a real wicket-taker at international level. Ian Bell has batted with real confidence. And Yardy and Dalrymple are showing that they are reliable with the ball in the middle overs, if hardly threatening.
The negatives though are far more serious. Andrew Flintoff's promotion in the order has been a disaster. The Australians think that they have figured out Kevin Pietersen. Michael Yardy does not look like scoring a run in his primary role. Steve Harmison is looking completely cowed. And, England are once again approaching a wicket-keeping crisis. Chris Read has looked like a genuine number 11 in both matches so far and has lasted a grand total of 4 balls, apart from the sort of lapses with the gloves that so upset people when Geraint Jones made them. It really did look like Read had cracked international batting against Pakistan, but another failure against the West Indies will put him under a lot of pressure in the warm-up to the Ashes.
Complain about this postwell what i think is , the only thing that english cricketers really think about is ashes , i think it is high time they should realise cricket is much more than ashes , look at the australien team thet take part in more tournaments and try to win all of them , i havent seen the english team lately participating in any such tournaments like the other teams do , any ways i really dont know what to say , i like english team and their cricketers but i think they should realise that they need to win all the matches they play in rather than think about ashes
Complain about this postI'm still confused as to how England with two defeats can still progress to the next round. if they do there must be some strange rule about abandoned matches that will help.
Based on the results of their first two games they don't deserve to go any further.
Period!
Rarely in the recent history of cricket from post Kerry packer days, has a third rate team been so over hyped as England more so after beating a virtual Aussie Second XI.
Complain about this postI agree. Inconsistency in both the batting and the bowling is our downfall at the moment. I think if you asked 10 people to pick their best one-day XI, you'd get ten different answers. I thought we were making progress in the summer of 2005, but injuries have seen to that.
Harmison appeared so sluggish today, but Mahmood was a positive to take away.
Complain about this postNever mind the folks at Cricinfo have explained how England can progress and the assumptions about them beating WI and having a superior Net Run Rate.
Which is as good as saying the tooth fairy lives next door to santa claus in London and they both support Chelsea.
Having said this much I'll probably regret the day they actually win this by doing the impossible and making it to the second round.
Complain about this postI just cannot see England as a major force in winning the one day format until they continue to take the game seriously. They just cannot depend on Tresco, Pietersen and Freddie to whisk them to glory. And Steve Harmison is lack lustre....he needs to get his game on as it precariously swung shut.
Complain about this postEngland's chances of retaining the Ashes this coming winter is rather slim, but deep inside I hope they will do well. There will be significant differences when the first test commences next month. Freddie will be fit and bowling and Monty will be all go. And for some reason England just function better as a Test side rather than a one day side. I'm not too concerned if England lose, there is nothing shameful about losing to a team like Australia, but please at least be competitive...
Complain about this postI went to see england play sri lanka at old trafford, when sri lanka was over. Now i did not see wat was wrong with a Cook Treshcothick opening partnership with Bell third and Strauss was free to come in when the situation required him to.
Complain about this postNow im only a teenager but some said Vaughan back in, I have never seen him do anything, except be a good captain, since the Australian tour of 2003. Flintoff is not the man to replace Vaughan I personally feel Trescothick is the man for the job.
On a Sub-contenental pitch y do u need seven bowlers in a one day team. In ODI terms collingwood can bowl at least half a spell. This means one one the seamers can be replaced by a batsmen or all rounder.
What is happening to the coaching for one day cricket? WE all know that experience tells, but why do our batsmen continue to select the wrong shot, and never seem to learn from experience. The only way to describe our batters state of mind at the crease is "panic". I remember a one day match when at 35 overs we had scored a mere 100 - 120, but lost only a couple of wickets, and with Flintoff cutting loose, we emded on 290 or so. Or that amazing Australia v South Africa Game when 800 runs were scored.
At 40 overs the Aussie score was around 250. So what is the panic? Some-one is instructing the batsmen to play to a formula, and is not treating them like grown ups. It must be Fletcher, and I can't believe he can get things so right in the tests, and make no inprovement in the one dayers.
New one day coach please.
Complain about this postEngland continue to look the goods; Australia will be worried since there can only be major improvement to come from the English
Complain about this postI think England have got major problems and not just in ODI cricket but for the coming ashes series. Both Flintoff and Pietersen seemed vunerable to the short pitched bowling and the pitches in Australia will be hard and not sluggish like the one in Jaipur and Mitchell Johnson can bowl a lot faster than he did today.When Steve Harmison bowls he lacks aggression and isnt running in hard he seems to give the impression that he can't be bothered floating up 80mph leg stump half volleys. The only positive from today was Bell's free scoring classy batting.
Complain about this postI thought Damien Martyn's innings was awesome given the situation and oozed class. His timing and placement were excellent and he could flick perfectly decent middle and offstump balls through the legside with ease. He had a shocking Ashes series in 2005 but if he can rediscover the form he had prior to that series and with the solid batting of Mike Hussey in the middle order I think it will make a huge difference from last time.
England is not playing with their potential...big player out for cheap.
Complain about this postFlintoff is handling way too much burden. His bowling will surely suffer because of this - the same happened with Kapil Dev a couple of decades ago. Strauss has clearly shown that he can handle the pressure of captaincy quite well and has even improved his performance with the bat after that. He should be England's choice of captain for the Ashes.
Complain about this post"England lack most of the ingredients of a powerful one-day side: a strong and settled top three; a reliable and flexible middle order; a late order hitter capable of turning or winning a game; a quality spinner; a match-changing bowler; and some canny new ball bowlers."
In percentage terms how much do you think this is down to:-
1. Not having the basic raw talent.
2. Inappropriate management and coaching methods.
3. A national culture that craves for success but vilifies everything that it takes to achieve it.
My stab is, respectively, 0, 20, 80.
Complain about this post"Once Flintoff and Kevin Pietersen were dismissed, their batting toil was predictable"..for a moment just ignore all the hype created about these two players since ashes and just concentrate on the falling graph of their performances since then,u will find that even with these two playing ,englnad batting collapse was predictable!
Complain about this postI have said all along that this England one-day side will never win any majors-Harmison's whingeing attitude shows when he bowls; the know-how of the experienced players is lacking;forget Giles but we have no top class spinner- and the worse thing is that Flintoff has said that this is a tournament " in isolation" from The Ashes! Having known Freddie personally, i feel that this is a gross oversight! winning games improves your mentality whehter it be 20-20, One day internationals or Tests- if England go Down Under with a negative mind set then it will be a hammering! There were at least 8 of the English side in Jaipur who will be playing in that First Test( we hope) - and it doesnt bode well!!
Complain about this postI think it's fair to say that while Steve Harmison is still an excellent bowler in Tests, he's simply found wanting in ODIs.
His wayward bowling was also responsible for England leaking runs against India, and I think he should be dropped in an attempt to help him find his form and get back his confidence.
Complain about this postI am sure maybe you should have made a remark about Chris Read's retuirn to the side and how he's struggled in the ODI team. The shots he's played have a great indication on how he'll play in the Ashes, should he now be picked, but more importantly, how the Aussies will bowl to him; could you agree that he's short of international class with the bats and, therefore, a dead weight for the team? The Beeb have long championed Reads inclusion in the English set up, I am now wondering if you are a little concerned as to who you've backed as his batting, even given the slogfest at Headingley, surely has to be cause for concern.
Complain about this postIs the England Cricket team on holiday in India it may as well be. Must be hard to keep coming up with excuses. Don't see Fletcher saying much or doing much
Complain about this postOur one-day form is shocking it is time to start looking elsewhere than the test team as they have been tried and invariably failed. Time for some new blood to come into the team, who know what to do in a one-dayer. Loye, Benning,Carter these are just a few but they can't do any worse than what the rest of them are actually doing now.
Complain about this postIt is astonishing. In his last 10 ODIs, 9 of which England lost, GO Jones scored 250 runs @ 31.3 with a 50 and only two single-figure scores - a pretty decent return in a struggling side. In his 7 comeback ODIs Chris Read has 57 runs @ 11.4 batting at the same place in the order and has been letting through byes (not just from poor deliveries, nor just from the quicks) and has missed chances (including one rather straightforward one against Pakistan that was decisive in the result). Where is the outcry from the purists?
Accepted that GO was right out of form. luck and confidence when dropped and there are no complaints about the decision, but Chris Read is not making any kind of case as a replacement.
Complain about this postSimon Mann is spot on. England's prior run of appalling results (eg 0-5 vs Sri Lanka) ought to have convinced even its most optimistic supporters that it just does not cut the mustard. Whereas I do not think, as does the provocative Glenn McGrath, that England will be annihilated in the upcoming Ashes series, it is a lay-down misere they will not retain the Ashes this Australian summer without Vaughan and Jones and with passengers like Giles, not to say emotional cripples such as Panesar. Trescothick and Harmison (homesick!!). England's inept displays in the ICC tournament demonstrate the chasm between it and Australia's one-day team. It might not be so great a gulf at test level but a gap nonetheless exists. Where are the Ray Illingworths and John Snows in today's English team? Their ilk will be needed if England is to make a fist of the fight to retain the urn.
Complain about this postIt should now be obvious that Harmison is not a one day bowler. He needs a full complement of slips to be effective. It looks like Flintoff, Anderson and Mahmood are our best bet at the moment. Also I believe Panesar should be tried before the World Cup to see if he can be as effective as he is in test cricket
Complain about this postEngland need to play players who have the urge to win and be successful because at the moment the players seem as if they don't care if they win or lose.
Complain about this postIts shame to see Harmison get more and more erratic every time he plays.
Complain about this postI think the england set up should split into separate odi and test teams with separate coachs and not too much cross over between them.
Test team:
Strauss
Cook
Bell
Pieterson
Collingwood
Flintoff
Jones/Read
Panesar
Hoggard
Harmison
Anderson
ODI
Joyce
Tresco
Pieterson
Collingwood
Flintoff
Shah/Key/Other (Yardy?)
Dalrymple
Read/Jones
Lewis
Mahmoud
Broad
Use the ODI arena to train bowlers to be accurate consistant and dangerous, something which has been lacking of late.
Complain about this postyeah i could not agree more me i think this side of england are a joke to the whole world of cricket first i would had picked struss as captain not flintoff he has no idea how to captain a one day side and to put his self in at 4 is a joke.and with kp what is the use of him he cant bat now he is a selfish player and thinks of him self and not the team.my self being married to a aussie she thinks we are a joke and i agree.we were very lucky to win the ashes last as i think the aussies played very bad cricket that is the only reason why we won.and the winter in aus we will get baeten by a whitewash you watch see weather i am right many thanks ray
Complain about this postI'm not sure I'd go as far is Ron Sinclair. We often forget that England played Australia after a rather modest series against South Africa where we won, but with the sages saying that England would have to up their game massively to compete, particularly one S.Harmison, who was dreadful in that series. We then went on to take on South Africa in ODIS when they were on a 14-game losing streak and lose the series 5-1!!!
The thinking in ODIs seems still as muddied as it is clear in Tests. This is epitomised by Freddy's travails. He is a middle order power house so what do we do? Instead of batting him at 6 or opening with him to exploit the fielding restrictions and the odd early loose ball, he goes in at 3 one day and at 4 the next and both times fails and leaves the batting collapsing and in crisis. Yardy is playing far higher in the order than he ever plays for Sussex and our best ODI bowler last summer gets left out because he's not quick enough for Test cricket! We bowl our main strike bowler for Tests to get him fit, but he doesn't get more than 2 overs because he's so expensive and has rarely been effective in ODIs anyway! And the guy who has been promoted to new ball bowler averages 46.4 with the ball and has dragged him economy rate down to just 6.1 per over after 14 matches.
Complain about this postEngland should forget about playing cricket and stick to football. Ooops I forgot, they aren't any good playing football either. Maybe they should form their own cricket league- how about it ? England, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. At least then the English crowd can shout about how good they are. The ashes this year is going to be a waste of time. We would have quite a few 3 and 4 day tests. At least that way by playing less cricket the English players can stay fit for longer.
Complain about this postVery Poor. England seem to have no plans at when playing ODI's. They can't seem to decide whether to stick or twist at the top of the order. Except for Collingwood, who has batted well in both games, the other batsmen tend to block or blast it. We lack players who are able to adapt their game and manourve the ball in the middle in the middle of the innings. Read following on in Geraint Jones's footsteps has failed to show any form with the bat, and we still lack a top class all round wicket-keeper batsman. As fo the bowlers apart from Harmison I dont think they played too badly, they just never had the chance to defend a decent total. Anderson's return to form has been welcome, and Mahmood is coming on well. Dalrymple and Yardy are also settling in well with the ball, but although they ae economical they arent too threatening in that department. As for Harmison, it's clear his head isnt right when playing ODI's. His average is twice as high when playing ODI's abroad as it is in England. He should be carrying the attack, and need to resolve this dilemma. At least we'll have Tres back opening in the World Cup, as well as Freddie bowling. My idea, get Mal Loye opening as a pinch hitter, Bell and Collingwood in the middle order, and leave Freddie to bat at 6.
Complain about this postwasnt it just a warm up excercise anyway b4 the ashes for our walking wounded
Complain about this postwe need monty in the one day squad..like now!
Complain about this postEngland is still living in the past glory. Vaughan / Giles have not played a single match since almost a year and are still in the mix for Ashes. Ridiculous !!!!. This shows how poor the bench strength it has. Trescothick has not had a single decent match in the recent past and even then he is considered a match winner. Petersen usually never plays according to the requirement. U can bet that 7 out of 10 times that he will fail. Will make 20 - 25 runs and get out. Never seen him shepherd the lower order. Needs to learn from Micheal Bevan / Hussey.
Cant the selectors not find proper replacement for the injured players ?. The selectors dont have the guts to tell the players that they are dropped because of non-performance.
Every team adopts the batting experiments on the requirement however England refuses to change !!! Dont see England progressing further in One-day with this attitude. It was extremely unfair to make Freddie the captain again. Strauss was doing a very competent job and should have been pursued. Strauss will always think that I am regarded as a replacement captain.
Complain about this postBel,Straus,Pietersen,Flintoff,Collingwood and thereafter jokers to bat.You can't think to win matches, logically, unless opposition is a bunch of jokers. This script will continue till England find good players to replace jokers.
Complain about this postIt's mystifying. England have a talented squad but the key players aren't firing. The return of Marcus Trescothick and Simon Jones will be a definite boost but we are some way off remotely challenging for the World Cup.
Placing Flintoff at three might be an idea but expecting him to return from injury and suddenly whack a century is unrealistic. Meanwhile, Harmison continues to frustrate. I think Yardy's bowling has been a plus lost among all the mediocrity. Overall, England have been poor for some time in one day cricket and they show no sign of reversing that trend.
Complain about this postAustralia is in a league of their own with a well balanced side that plays with confidence. South Africa and the rest follows. I think England will do better on the Australian pitches. Winning the Ashes in Australia is a bridge to far though. I don't think England have the amount of quality players Australia have. Everyone wishes England the best of luck, but they will need a lot of it. Maybe then only.
Complain about this postEngland need a separate ODI coach. It is a completely different game from a Test Match.
Complain about this postNot a single word about Andrew Strauss's innings! He should have been captain. What great news that the wonderfull Trescothic is coming back. Unless he finds an excuse to leave! Unfortunatley it seems that Marcos does not like the heat in the kitchen!
Complain about this posti think colingwood should bat on no 4.kaven on 3.flintoff 5,dalrymple 6,i think there is no place of yardy.
Complain about this postWhy have we not followed suit of Sri Lanka and Australia and put a more aggressive batsman at the top of the order. Certainly while Trescothic's out, I firmly believe Flintoff should open with Andrew Strauss. Ian Bell in at 3 etc.
Complain about this postWhy have we not followed suit of Sri Lanka and Australia and put a more aggressive batsman at the top of the order. Certainly while Trescothic's out, I firmly believe Flintoff should open with Andrew Strauss. Ian Bell in at 3 etc.
Complain about this postYardy is a useful containing spin bowler but only as a replacement for Giles. He can bat at 7 so read can drop to 8. We cant play panesar in odi's, unless the pitch is a raging turner because we need to play 3 seamers+Flintoff. Those 3 seamers should be Anderson, Harmison/Mahmood/Broad and Lewis. Anderson and Lewis must take the new ball and bowl accurately. The top six must be:
1.Trescothick
2.Strauss
3.Bell/Loye?
4.Pietersen
5.Collingwood
6.Flintoff
We cant keep playing yardy and dalyrmple, it must be one or the other. It is also a pipedream to believe S.Jones and Vaughan will be fit for world cup.
Complain about this postReally Harsh comments on some of the players, especially Read, Dalrymple and yardy. They are coming in with the side in a mess.
Read in particualr has come in with us in the middle of a huge collapse. I for one won't write of his england career in ODI's on the basis of two games where the whole side has been poor.
People calling for Jones have short memories.
Complain about this postEngland should bat the traditional way to preserve wickets till the 35th over and start from there. If a player is out of form, he should be dropped immediately. One of the openers should bat till the end. A left arm bowler should be included. On indian pitches Panesar would do well.
Complain about this postHaving seen the English first hand last year, and read the articals of what they have acomplished since. The major factor seems to be, their atitude. No longer are they a side with nothing to lose. It seems they finally have something (the ashes), and the weight of it seems too much to bear.
Complain about this postBefore last years ashes victory, there was a nothing to lose attitude, coupled with a sense of if we lose, so what! They are now defensive in any approach, its only when they lost that mentality, that they began to attack and seek victory. Rather than try not to fail. To play for saftey is the most dangerous thing!
HI
Complain about this postI think that Englang need a world class middle order player and a world class bowler and also a world class opener for them to contend the world cup they dont have any depth at all
i think like Boycot that Fletcher time is up as couch!?
one other thing Peterson and Flintof should
get a rollicking for there lack luster attitude
Strouse for CAPTAIN YES!?
john
Complain about this postEngland need to realise that the one day game has moved on and Test players do not necessarily make the best one day players. Look at the Aussies, Langer and Hayden don't play one dayers, Warne would rather concentrate on Tests and Hogg comes in for one dayers as an all-rounder. In my opinion, Harmisonm Strauss and Read should be told to rest and concentrate on Test Cricket only! They already leave Hoggard out in the wilderness.
My line up would be...
Complain about this post1. Mal Loye - someone to play freely without pressure and can take the game away from the opposition in the first 15 overs.
2. Tres - Left/right combo always underestimated can also play shots on the back of Loye's momentum.
3. Bell - plays straight, but can also play shots. Would settle the innings in difficult conditions.
4/5. Colly/Pietersen - depending on the state of the game. Runs on the board = Pietersen. Dodgy start to innings = Colly.
6. Flintoff.
7. Matt Prior - Best one day keeper/batsmen in the country, should be in one day side as a specialist like loye. Aggressive hitter and competent keeper.
8. Yardy/Dalrymple - Both useful on slow pitches especially. And both even in the batting stakes.
9. ? NOT Harmison.
10. Anderson - looking really good in this format, a world cup definite.
11. Lewis - Most economical and consistent performer wit the ball, moves it around and can take wickets at the top.
A couple of points
Complain about this post1. Keep faith with Harmison. Bouncy pitches in Australia and the West Indies will suit him.
2. Read has shown he is not up to the job. His batting is woeful.
3. Colligwood is wasted at 6 and we need a big hitter down the order.
4. Why not give Panesar a go in ODI's. Therefore line up should be:
1. Tresco
2. Strauss
3. Bell
4 Pieterson
5 Collingwood
6 Flintoff
7 Jones
8 Daryrmple
9 Mahmood
10 Harmison
11 Anderson
Squad members, Cook, Lewis, Panesar, Solanki, Yardy.
I haven't forgotten Vaughan, Jones and Giles who would come in when fit.
I can't believe people are still saying Jon Lewis should be in the ODI side? The reason he's not playing is for the same reason that Hoggard doesn't get a look in, He'd get hit all over the park, medium pace bowlers can't do it in one day cricket.
Complain about this postCollingwood at #5. You've gotta be kidding me?
Aussie team will be:
Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn
Hussey
Watson
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Johnson
McGrath
Symonds (12th)
Bracken (13th)
MacGill (14th)
McGrath? Call him Mr "5-0" but he's got more victories and wickets under his belt than half the England team combined and then some.
Anyway, he was two runs and/or a twisted ankle shy of being right. An Australian victory at Edgbaston would have panicked England, led to wholesale sackings and total capitulation.
Australia will win. Maybe not 5-0, but they'll win and win well.
Complain about this postThis was an absolute dismal performance.
The captains may have said this game didnt matter for the ashes, but an opportunity to face the opposition prior to the first test in late november and try and find out their weaknesses, is a chance gone begging. The Aussies would have taken a lot from this game seeing such a weak England performance. Australia maybe an old side, but they look strong and had done there homework on England.
England, however, can't even string a side together let alone do some homework on the opposition. Bell has improved but is questionable at number two, and I cannot see anyone in the line up to open with struass. Collingwood did well and should be placed up the order. Pietersen was undone by clever bowling and should be placed down the order where his talent would be served best.
I hope Flintoff's performance will improve before the ashes start, and at least have a chance to bowl.
As for Read he is just a bunny who gets caught in the headlights.
I hope Englands performance improves sharpish before I see the tests proper in Melbourne & Sydney.
Complain about this postI think England seriously needs to think through its one day strategy.Michael Yardy !!!Australia maybe won the game and Martyn a few hearts as well but Australia if not a shadow of its former self is nowhere as dominant as it was in 2003.But the English made them look much better than the functional, professional side they are now more often than not.
Complain about this postFancy playing in India and not taking 'the best finger spinner in the world' - It is completly idiotic that Monty isn't playing. When defending low totals, as England seem to have to do with alarming regularity, you need a wicket-taking spinner, not someone to 'hold up an end!'
And by the end of the Ashes, I suspect Glenn McGrath will be laughing on the other side of his face! And you can quote me on that!
Complain about this postHarmison and Mahmood are not internationl one day bowlers. Suffice to say the latter is not an international bowelr full stop. Mahmood is in for a right hammering down under, he has been talked up way and beyond his potential. Niether he nor Harmison have a clue where the 'white' ball is going hence niether has any form of control reaulting in a lack of variation rendering the pair as meat and drink for top order batsmen particulary from the sub continet.
The weekend debacle against the Aussies should not have come as a shock to anyone. This particular set of 'individuals', that includes the management and selection committe, do not seem to learn from their mistakes. Maybe they are incapable of this. John Lewis(JL) the only bowler who has remotley exhibited any form of control with the white ball is left to sit and ponder. Surely Harmison must be ejected in favour of JL, and Monty considered to enforce some form of control. Lets face it none of the so called run scroing bowlers have contributed with the bat so far in the one dayers. It would be no loss.
Complain about this postI feel England need to include Monty in their One day side. What it does is it gives them a wicket taking spinner and it gives him an opportunity to improve on his fielding and batting. Your thoughts on that????
Santosh
Complain about this postThe problem is the captain.
Especially in one-day cricket Flintoff cannot bat, bowl and captain.
Flintoff should never have been given the captaincy, Strauss is a more cerebral captain and able to deal with players that don't just respond to the leading from the front style captaincy of Flintoff. Leave him free to be a natural talent and not have to think about his cricket too much.
Complain about this postFor Richard:
Geraint Jones: last 10 matches, 250 runs @ 31.3 (batting usually at 7)
Matt Prior: 11 matches in India and Pakistan, winter 2005/06, 205 runs @ 18.6 (batting at 6)
Chris Read: 7 matches in England and India, 57 runs @ 11.4 (batting at 7).
Chris Read's batting returns *in ODIs* since returning have been highly deficient. You can't make the collapse excuse every time because sometimes a number 7 bat in international cricket has to STOP the collapse.
There are many people who wonder why Jon Batty of Surrey has not been selected for the Champions Trophy and World Cup if we are serious about winning them.
Complain about this postI'm lucky enough to be going to the world cup next April (though its costing me £3k!!).
I'm concerned however.
How fletcher can say the world cup will come too soon is beyond me. We were out cheaply last world cup and the fans were promised 'next time'. Reaching the ICC final two years ago did show progress but recent one day selections appear to come out of a hat. No consistent approach is made unlike the test side where we are having success.
Fletcher should go as one day coach with immediate effect.
The ashes one dayers will lend ideas to the team to take the field in the West Indies but for me the starting X1 would be:
Strauss
Trescothick
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Blackwell (if fit - Yardy/Darlymple if not)
Mahmood
Lewis
Anderson
Even if early wickets tumble there are big hitters later down in the order to rescue things.
Lets hope a nucleus of a side plays down under and competes. Maybe then I might think its not a waste of money (though it'll still be a great experience).
Complain about this postHmm.....I have a feeling that England will have a hard time down under.A very sluggish team ready for Australia to beat the stuffing out of in the Tests and ODI's.
Complain about this postLook out England! We are ready for you!!!
I wouldn't read too much in to the perfomance of Yardy with the ball, Hussey scored 32 from 85 balls and was just blocking every delivery overreacting to the fact that he was sent in to play a steady innings. Ian Chappell even said he went over the top. However Yardy looked clueless in the middle order against our bowlers and also against India.
Complain about this postHowever you should not worry about Englands chances in the ashes, I am Australian and our team also has alot of question marks over it in my opinion. England however have been horrific in One dayers over the last 2 years, but still have the ability to become a good side for the world cup if can remain healthy and get a stable lineup.
Geoff Boycott should never be allowed to comment on cricket. Apart from being a abbrasive, arrogant individual, he only serves to antagonise viewers and readers with his 'clap trap'. However, Duncan Fletcher may need to concede that he has exhausted his efforts and opportunities in trying to find the right ODI balance.
Having said that don't forget we did reach the ICC Final last time, losing somewhat unfortunatley to the Windies.
However, key players in this instance have not performed. None of the top five have made big hundreds lately, this is particulary frustrating considering both Bell and Strauss have got half way there recently and then just thrown it away.
I don't want to go on about Harmison, AGAIN. Pieterson, has attempted and FAILED to fill various positions in the top five. He really needs to put the team first if he is to be recognised as a true great ODI top order bat.
Can someone please tell me why Monty Panesar is being completeley overlooked, if any one other than John Lewis can demonstrate some form of control with the white ball it is Monty. As previously suggested Harmison and/or Mahmood need to jetisoned to give this pair a good run in the team.
Complain about this postdp:
I think that we need to remember that Northants do not play Monty either in one-day cricket. He has played just 11 list "A" matches and 6 20-20s in his career. In that time he has just 11 list "A" wickets, almost half of them in just one match.
Generally it is reckoned that attacking spinners are ruined by playing excessive one day cricket early in their careers. This happened to several Indian spinners in the 1980s who were turned from attacking spinners with loop to flat, defensive, negative bowlers. We really do not want that to happen to Monty.
So, the people who are calling for him to come as the saviour of the ODI side may be premature. Even Monty himself admits that playing in ODIs is something for the future, but that he's in no hurry now.
Complain about this postLiam, any danger of keysie getting the england captaincy, what more does the guy have to do?
Complain about this post"At 02:03 PM on 23 Oct 2006, Steve wrote: I can't believe people are still saying Jon Lewis should be in the ODI side? The reason he's not playing is for the same reason that Hoggard doesn't get a look in, He'd get hit all over the park, medium pace bowlers can't do it in one day cricket."
Good call Steve! How many wicket maidens has Steve Harmison bowled with the new ball recently? Or Sajid Mahmood? Against the West Indies Jon Kewis is repeating what he has done against Australia and Pakistan in the past and England should be grateful to him.
Don't you remember a time when Vic Marks (yes, he of TMS) took the new ball for England in a ODI and, instead of carnage, came off with figures of 5-20? Pace isn't everything. Accuracy and guile are important at all speeds.
Complain about this post5,
Complain about this post