..the IPCC has come up with some ideas on cutting the number of deaths in high speed police car chases. Just about to record some interviews on the subject for the programme tonight. If you fancy reading more about it, is the report.
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I imagine that the glamorisation of high speed driving has a lot to do with this problem. We've managed to (mostly) deglamorise smoking, so I imagine it can be done with cars, but will take many years and a lot of reinforcement.
I do feel that sentencing for offences using a motor vehicle (one of the most dangerous weapons we have) should be akin to that for knife/gun/other weapon attacks, but I realise that that is an "after the event" response rather than a preventative measure.
Maybe all men should be banned from driving? :-p
It does sometimes FEEL like the licence to chase brings out the boy-racer in some police drivers.
It undermines our confidence in our police forces if they are always cleared of charges of recklessness or misdemeanour, or are only ever found to be guilty in the more extreme cases. The only way in which police drivers will be forced into being 'responsible' is if they are prosecuted when they are clearly being irresponsible. Yes, we want our police to be active on our behalf and to protect our wellbeing, but not if in so doing they recklessly jeapordise the safety of citizens. And that applies even if those citizens are acting suspiciously.
And, while I'm on the subject - Living as I do near a road which has a huge problem with reckless driving by motorcyclists, I have often been told, by informed sources, that many of those cyclists are off-duty policemen. This I find quite outrageous. We have regular accidents near us involving motorcyclists, and the death rate from these accidents is high, and it is extraordinary that some police are involved in the activity which is resulting in these deaths.
Now now, Appy! no casting aspertions on people just because they have different chromosomes to you! :p
I agree that motoring offences should have a lot tougher penalties. Even speeding fines should be higher. I say this as someone who has in the past been caught speeding. I know this'll set off a stream of "speed cameras are just being used to make money" comments, but why should we consider that certain laws are okay to break. After all, that's what a motorist who is caught speeding has done! Do we think that petty theft from shops is okay? No. Why is speeding any different? If you don't want to get caught by a speed camera, there's a very simple way to do this: DON'T SPEED! Put up the speeding fines to 6 points and £250 minimum. Use the money that comes in to improve alternative forms of transport (trains, buses, trams, etc).
How would speed cameras prevent madmen from going down the exit slip road and proceeding along a motorway in the wrong direction?
I saw something similar in Bristol one day; it took me so long to work out what was going on... then I saw the Police car.
Meanwhile, speed cameras are just being used to make money. Speed cameras are just being used to make money. Speed cameras are just being used to make money. Speed cameras are just being used to make money. Speed cameras are just being used to make money. Speed cameras are just being used to make money. Speed cameras are just being used to make money.
The people responsible for high speed police chases and any subsequent accident are, quite simply, those who are being chased. If they didn't try and 'escape' there would be no need for the police to follow. Don't blame the police.
Ach Fearless (3), You know where my tongue is! Have to say though -- only one of my female driver friends has ever had a speeding fine; several of the men have that and more... I realise these men are no more representative of you/other men than the woman speeder is of me. However, I do think there's something in the way that boys/,men are raised that makes it harder for them to prioritise safety or admit to being uncertain about rules/directions and so on.
Ach Fearless (3), You know where my tongue is! Have to say though -- only one of my female driver friends has ever had a speeding fine; several of the men have that and more... I realise these men are no more representative of you/other men than the woman speeder is of me. However, I do think there's something in the way that boys/,men are raised that makes it harder for them to prioritise safety or admit to being uncertain about rules/directions and so on.
JB: Your point is valid - to a degree.
However, police pursuit is now regarded as an 'adventure' by some youngsters, and while the perpetrator is in the wrong in the first place, the pursuer also has responsibilities.
I cannot escape the sensation that some of the pursuers are just doing what the perpetrators are guilty of in the first place, only that their actions are sanctioned.
There's only one place for high speed driving, and that's the racetrack, and the rule should apply equally to police and public. It can only be exceptional cases where high speed chases can be justifiable, given the risks that ensue.
Blame Z cars. It never happened in Dock Green. and as for the Sweeney.
Vyle, I'm not saying speed cameras would prevent car chases. I'm saying that as part of a way to help "de-glamourise" fast driving, penalising irresponsible drivers who speed heavily may help. After all, it is the driver's conscious decision to drive at a speed that breaks the law.Hit people hard where it hurts (the wallet) when they do. It is against the law to drive over a certain speed on our roads. Why should people expect not to have to pay the penalty when they break the law? A driver is repsonsible for a large dangerous object which can kill. Safety for all road users (car drivers, motorcyclists, pedal cyclists and pedestrians) is not something that can be taken lightly.
And as for the speed cameras are just being used to make money, it's the driver's choice to give them the money!
Is it just me, or is the blog really really quiet today?
Police car chases: Aren't they really done so that the Police can sell the recordings to TV stations?
Um Appy (6 & 7), I had to think for a minute to understand what you meant re the position of your tongue! I guess it's the naughty step for me! :p
FF (10) I was only trying to rise to your bait.
Reminds me of a story I heard about people in a locality who pressed time and again for a speed camera. When it was installed, the majority of the early culprits were mothers taking their children to school.
I just think there are too many inappropriate speed limits. Cameras are fine, but should have a sign right next to them indicating what the limit is. Many times I've seen people brake dangerously because they saw a camera, even though they were not exceeding the limit.
Aperitif (7) - Totally unscientific sample, but I was in youth court this morning and motoring offence tally was approx: male 10 - female 0. Having said that, the overall ratio for offenders was probably 5:1 male:female.
I've just heard the load of rubbish spouted by the ACPO representative.
Am I the only person in the UK that remembers that many helicopters and "stingers" were purchased not too long ago, so that "We can get ahead of people in these situations and prevent high speed crashes"
Blah! Blah! Blah! Ad Nauseum - again!
1Vyle Hernia @14,
"I just think there are too many inappropriate speed limits."
I think I am with you there. *Why* is the tunnel under part of the city of London, where I have never seen any sign of any accident, a 30mph limit with *3* speed-cameras on it, when the road at the end of it is 40mph? It can't be to protect the pedestrians: they aren't allowed into that tunnel.
During two years, I drove across country and back for two hours per journey at least once a week (more often towards the end of the time) to visit my father when he was first living alone, then dying.
During that two years the number of cameras on the roads I was driving remained the same, and the number of accidents on the stretches of roads was noted on signs and stayed very similar, but the amount of the road on which the speed a car could travel was restricted grew. By the time I no longer had to do that trip, it had doubled. Each village had mysteriously grown, as far as I could tell, from having a limit in the village, to having an outlying, increased limit extending to parts of the open country where I never saw a pedestrian in the entire time I was passing those places regularly.
I have never minded driving carefully and at under 30mph through places where people live, but I do start to feel fed-up when an A-road with clear visibility and no turnings has a limit on it that stops me from driving at 45mph in fine weather and with not even a bird nearby.
You also wrote
"Many times I've seen people brake dangerously because they saw a camera, even though they were not exceeding the limit."
There's a game naughty people play on the North Circular Road on the bits of dual carriageway with a 40mph limit on them. Knowing where the cameras are, driving at sixty and then pulling into the middle lane to let the wide-boy overtake -- straight into the speed camera, *flash* *flash* -- is great fun. I can see no reason for those speed-limits, and I know nobody who can. Perhaps someone here could have a go at justifying them?
A [police] friend of mine says that tail-ending accidents on bits of road in this town immediately near cameras are just under double those everywhere else, which seems rather sad.
Regarding police car chases, I have just driven round Hammersmith roundabout, where I found myself next to two policemen in their car. A man rushed through the traffic ahead of us, crossing the road dangerously, followed by another man shouting 'stop that man!'.
I looked at the policemen in the car beside me, and they looked away. I hooted my horn and encouraged them to leave their car and help the chase, but they threw up their hands, as if to say 'what can we do?'
In fact it was just after 5pm and they were due to go off duty. Moments later they parked their car near Hammersmith Police station and ended their shift.
So much for police action against crime - no chase when a cup of tea is waiting!
Whilst skimming this blog for approx 15 mins, at least four police cars have screamed along Eversholt Street NW1 in both directions, which is a typical London street where the 30 mph limit is too fast - never mind police speeds! It is not unusual to see police passing each other going in opposite directions with blues and twos going! Our local paper has reported that much of this is about targets rather than life and death situations. these are not police chases per se. Perhaps someone inside the Met can enlighten us.
I have been complaining for years about this very subject - at last something seems to have been done (just talk so far)... It doesn't take any intelligence to work out a better method for stopping these fatal car chases.
Afterall we the tax payers have supplied the police with millions of pounds of equipment perfect for just this job.
Cars with radios - to track vehicle at arms length - P.C.s with radios and mobile phone system of their own - to track these vehilces at arm's length - and lastly helicopters - to track these vehicles at arm's length - you do not need to chase them what you need is the people on the ground!!!!!! - oh sorry i forgot they all stay in the police stations all shift and there are none on the ground to actually stop this happening.
I hope none of next 115 dead people are friends or relatives of yours!!!!!
Too simply by half.
stupid me - there was me thinking that the police are there to protect us not actually KILL us! Welcome to Europe' newest Police State.
nevermind I'm only here to pay their bills after all what do I count for?
Sorry I didn't hear the discussion no the show but I agree with those above who mention glamourising these chases. We put these car thieves on primetime TV for g*d's sake, no wonder they get a high out of it!
The impression I get is that at least some (?a fair number?) of police enjoy chasing about with the sirens on and get a kick out of chasing kids in stolen cars. And some of the kids are just driving around waiting for a police car to take the bait and run with it.
There has to be a better way. With so many traffic surveillance cameras and helicopters surely at least some of these cars could be equally well followed at many arm's lengths.
As for speed cameras, half of them where I live never seem to be on and people just slow down to go through the camera then speed up again, so unless you have them every 250 yards they're not an especially helpful traffic calming measure. And kids in stolen cars aren't going to care if they get flashed. Does anyone know if those 'Average Speed cameras' on motorways actually work, or are thye a bluff?
Sorry I didn't hear the discussion no the show but I agree with those above who mention glamourising these chases. We put these car thieves on primetime TV for g*d's sake, no wonder they get a high out of it!
The impression I get is that at least some (?a fair number?) of police enjoy chasing about with the sirens on and get a kick out of chasing kids in stolen cars. And some of the kids are just driving around waiting for a police car to take the bait and run with it.
There has to be a better way. With so many traffic surveillance cameras and helicopters surely at least some of these cars could be equally well followed at many arms' lengths.
As for speed cameras, half of them where I live never seem to be on and people just slow down to go through the camera then speed up again, so unless you have them every 250 yards they're not an especially helpful traffic calming measure. And kids in stolen cars aren't going to care if they get flashed. Does anyone know if those 'Average Speed cameras' on motorways actually work, or are they a bluff?
(I am NOT malicious...especially not THAT many times!!!)
Gossipmistress: Some of the speed cameras do work, as my SO is currently lamenting! Six points in as many months (no, no sympathy please! He knows he shouldn't do it, and is thinking of opting for a Speed Awareness course this time around).