Glug
At 17.54 last night, during our item on wine, I had to make Malcolm Gluck swallow his words mid sentence. He was just about to ask our Lebanese winemaker a question and I cut him off! The trouble is, if an item runs past 17.54, the shipping forecast doesn't get on on Long Wave...important information is lost, ships run aground and people die.
So I had to stop him. But in response to the numerous queries, we called Malcolm this afternoon to ask what he was going to ask. And he told me (I paraphrase) that it was a bit of a wine buff question, but he wanted to know what Serge Hochar changed, around 1985/86 to change the taste of Château Musar. Malcolm did put it much better than that, of course.
If we were journalists of any merit we'd phone Serge to get the answer. Don't hold your breath.
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No no no no,
Two blogs on one day
I'm doing little enough work as it is
>gibber<
BLOG 1 RESPONSE:
I was there in the 'audio' sense (re: the visual description of the carry on luggage size) and managed to crack a smile but I think that was a reflex action caused by my tight underpants.
The blog really has descended into the banal. The PM 'newsletter' (trade descriptions should be called in for mis-description) has also degenerated into a vague musing about anything but that which it purports to be concerned with and then rubs our faces in it.
Yawn.
OTHER MATTERS:
Oh and might I add, I recall the debate concerning 'multiculturalism' and Eddies referring to the 'PM blog' having just started discussing it. The only input on yesterday’s blog (that I can find) would seem to have been from my good self and no one else wanted to touch the subject with a 30 foot pole. A similar approach to that of the government might I add (until recently which I feel is preordained to be spoken of quite publicly but very shortly disappear into the ether). We all know that there is a fearful undercurrent regarding the puss filled boil that is 'ethnic diversity' and the pricking of said boil will result resentment spilling over (similar to the violence that occurred in Paris not too long ago). The government has known of the problem for a long while but chosen to ignore it. In light of recent events, unfortunately for them, it has become very much more relevant. A resolution and the ensuing fall out should be rather interesting. I would not wish to reside in a large city when this does occur.
Has anyone any thoughts on this or am I asking a purely rhetorical question?
At the risk of changing the subject unneccessarily - don’t type that in a hurry - I still maintain there’s a spelling typo in today’s PM strapline...
Josimar
Tobias (2): it's deeply unfair to claim that the PM blog has "descended" into the banal. For a blog that started with the words "testing, testing", I rather think it's managed to ascend to somewhere. It may not be an enlightening or inspiring somewhere, but at least it's somewhere.
Tobias - the overspilling of resentment lurking within our so-called 'ethnic diversity' is indeed as fearsome a prospect as you suggest, but I would ask if you have any ideas as what 'the government' or anyone else should be doing about it. Who is there who can put the lid on the pot or turn the gas out beneath it? I too can criticize past goverment action (no problem with that one) and I am very sceptical about yesterday's rather half-baked initiative propounded by Ruth Kelly, but I have no idea at all about what can realistically be done in the future which will make any difference.
..oh come on, Eddie, that was really getting interesting about the wine. Invite them on again tonight, but start at, oh, 5:35 to give plenty of time.
I really put my foot in it when I said
Honorary IT Helpdesk
on Not waving:19
Valery, Jezetha, the method I employed was to play the audio file, but divert the output to a file, not the speakers, and stored as a .wav file. (there is freeware software to do this, vsound for example). Whether it's legal for me to keep the file on my computer or not, I don't know. Do you, Lissa?
I suppose an mp3 is going to appear at some point.
Hey, why all the extra moderation all of a sudden. I've been blogging today, why am I now in a queue?
(pssst : anyone want a case of pre-85 Château Musar?)
My widowed mother lives a stone's throw from one of the suspect houses in High Wycombe (hardly a *large* city). It's a very mixed area. I'm even more worried about her post all of this, and I thought that on the whole relations were quite good. I also noted a meeting to let the residents share their views had quite a number preferring to keep quiet and not go.
So - is this intended to be the blog for grownups if the other is for the kids - or can one be bi-blogual?
Calm down Stephen - it's Friday. Want some of my pills? Btw I decided on the red shoes with the white spots, borrowed them from Minnie Mouse as I thought they'd be suitable for Pluto? Or is that too obvious...
Tobias, was the 30 foot pole reference a slur on the diversity of our multicultularity - why shouldn't Pole's reach 30 feet high if they balance really carefully?
Yup, John W - I got quite a different message on this blog - got told, quite snippily I thought, to return to my original message - or some such nonsense/
Btw thanks for the IT stuff, if I can ever get off this Blogstuff I'll give it a go, I haven't even had lunch yet....
Excellent work Valery. I can tell you're a gardner. You spotted the tone of the comments on this blog starting to rise - and were in there like a flash, nipping it in the bud.
Well - you know - I have it to do, eh John H?
Also, by name and nature, I feel I must make a correction to mine at 10 ( I'm itching to correct your gardner but that seems too churlish when you've been so supportive) for Pole's please read Poles. I was in a rush to get back to Not Waving, and what with not having had lunch yet, never mind still not having started on Wednesday's (Snoerwang)weed pulling....etc,etc
No Comment.
I blame that Lizzy woman (the "PM Blog producerLi") for all the problems on here.
And maybe all the other problems as well.
Hozzie? Maybe Euan has been at the pre-85 Château Musar?
Re: Valery (10):
Bi-blogual? Sounds like one of those diseases I used to catch back in the Summer Of Love . . .
"PM Blog producerLi" is getting upset :
"In an effort to curb malicious comment posting by abusive users, I've enabled a feature that requires a weblog commenter to wait a short amount of time before being able to post again. Please try to post your comment again in a short while. Thanks for your patience."
I'm sure we can adjust to the new security arrangements in time ...
Sorry Valery. Here it is, the missing 'e'.
It was under the table. Do you think that andycraww is right and that's where Edwin et al are?
Afternoo, one & all! sorry I'm late joining the gathering, but I had an elsewhere I had to be earlier....
Tobias, I think this is something that has to happen periodically as a society evolves. After each new culture is "integrated", you get a generation, either the first or second generation of that culture born in that country, who are torn in two directions. There's the influence of the old culture, and there's the influence of the "integrated" community that they are a part of. Most individuals go one way or the other. Some, however, are left trapped in the middle, not feeling a part or either. This builds up into resentment to both sides, and develops into a seething anger at all authority. This is the anger that extremists harness.
All that is just my take on it. I'm not a sociologist... I'm an engineer. I'm just looking at it based on my perceptions and experiences....
Stephen, do you accept engineers as immigrants? i may not have many pairs of shoes, but I can bring a pile of DVDs....
How about pedantical instead of banal? The blog says there are 5 comments but I can see 16 here.
No, I don't know if pedantical is a word, but if you worried about that then...
Penfold
Crikey andycrampon, where did that come from? Do you have a hotline to the Lizzy-meister herself?
I don't actually understand what that means though. Is the drivel we're serving up the cause of this measure, or are we glimpsing the consequences of action already taken to protect us innocents from the mean-spirited contributions of others? Golly, if so, it's like a parallel of real life and the on-going security fears. Perhaps to further the parallel, one of our number could threaten legal action against the ±«Óătv for protecting us so and demand that all contributions, however malicious, be shown immediately (all proceeds to charity, of course).
Right well having had some response to what I consider a pertinent issue, here are my views, work constraints means that coherence may be a little pushed.
Historically we have just allowed bygones to be bygones. Each to their own so to speak. This has come full circle now to the extent that we, the indigenous population (seems the most PC) have fewer rights and fewer opportunities to voice our opinions, fearing retribution on two fronts; inciting racial hatred and retribution from any group that feels victimised.
A resolution to this is now rather difficult and I would never be so bold as to claim knowledge of the inner workings of that which has come to pass.
The first option is to limit those coming into the country. An obvious point to make, granted, but until we can manage the situation already established how we can hope to deal with this in the future.
Approaching this is tricky. Now the government could overturn what has already been put in place via various laws, legislation and rights movements (highly unlikely) setting a more rigid mandate as to way of life and what is acceptable within a given community. Living under Sharia law, promoting every other nations traditions over our own etc is just not acceptable. Whilst our values are seen as something that can be eroded, this will continue and the demands will remain as unreasonable. Facing this head onwill exacerbate further tensions that are already present and undoubtedly leave many a nose out of joint. How, as a governing state do you initiate change without seeming dictatorial and presenting an almost police state.
Further open debate needs to be allowed. By this I mean that we, the people, have the opportunity to candidly express how we feel without being daubed with the racism brush. I feel that at present we are the oppressed rather than the oppressor. This is our country and we all have a vested interest in continuing the way of life that we know and love.
What I will say is that those currently involved and skirting the issue (Ruth 'Wonder Boy' Kelly and the person interviewed on yesterdays PM about racism and not answering a direct question about whether those he spoke to felt that they were being singled out for their religion) should genuinely look to resolving this matter rather than paying lip service and smiling whilst doing so (Kelly reference again).
All a bit lumped in but then I am sure that you get the gist. A very broad problem with no visible one size fits all solution.
Oh dear! I feel a huff and puff coming on ...
Look away NOW ...
I think a lot of nonsense is spoken about the integration of ethnic minorities. Are we seriously suggesting that the British abroad seek to live in areas where there are no other British, learn the local language and speak it at home, give up the religion that has been in their family for generations and start do whatever the locals do, support their adopted countries national team, etc ...
I don't think so.
... and no, asking for coffee in Tuscany doesn't count.
Phew! That's better ... Normal service now please
I don't have a LizzyLine just yet, but you too can have this message on your screen if you post a message - then post another one straight away.
Well I'm sure that PM Blog producerLi is doing a fine job - I can be a bit squeamish and don't like seeing nasy things, so I'd rather not be shown all the moderated posts, even if the proceeds do go to the donkeys.
Lissa,
Do you mean this blog is being flooded by abuse already? Is nothing sacred? I thought this PM blog was a fun, fact-free forum to comment on Eddie's comments and his round-robin (as it cannot be called a newsletter)
Charles Hatton, that comment has very much trivialised a highly emotive subject.
Whislt abroad, we do not try and dictate how the population lives. Everyone has their culture but it is when that culture encroaches on those around that it needs to be questioned.
The only nonsense spoken here has been by you. If it were that straight forward there would be no need for a debate. Do you live in Britain at all?
Ball-tampering umpire just reported as having offered to resign for 500K USD !
How much ar ethey paid?
I wonder how many games in the future against Pakistan he would have missed.
I must go off and find a few things I can offer to resign from!
erm - lets have debate rather than namecalling huh?
Can someone do a simple thing for me?
Can someone define "our culture"?
I'll tell you where I'm going - is it Victorian values? Edwardian? Elizabethan (I or II)? Same country with a mix of people during all these periods. Each had different ways of behaving towards each other, different laws, different values.
These values/ ways of behaving (I would suggest) have evolved. Not necessarily because of immigration but certainly that will influence it. As will the actions and beliefs of other countries.
Also I must comment directly on something that Tobias mentioned. He suggested that we cannot have open debate (now) for fear of offending others. Well, lets just debate without offending people. Lets not make comments that are offensive. If it is offensive it really won't help in the debate as people will simply respond to the offence and not the point that is being made.
I like debate. I like intelligence. I hate ignorance. So, happy to have a forum (though a blog is gonna be constrictive by its nature).
What is a vera lock worth in Las Vagas?
I agree with Whisht. I'm all for more inteligent debate.
As for "Our culture."
Happily I'm Scottish, I have a culture.
" 29. At 05:54 PM on 25 Aug 2006, whisht wrote:
Also I must comment directly on something that Tobias mentioned. He suggested that we cannot have open debate (now) for fear of offending others. Well, lets just debate without offending people. Lets not make comments that are offensive. If it is offensive it really won't help in the debate as people will simply respond to the offence and not the point that is being made. "
Oh that I moved in your circle, or that you had in mine.
"Offensive" is often in the eye or ear of the beholder or listener. It can need considerable mental agility and logical contortion to manipulate a statement or opinion into an offensive state, but once that has been accomplished, the "revision" becomes the "substantive". It is then the base from which debates (or riots) are constructed.
Ref Andrycra (18) - where did you get that from?
I feel thoroughly censored now.
The Shipping Forecast is important, generally more important than anything else. Other European countries, which shall here remain nameless, shoe-horn the meteo in between their programs, and at a speed that suggests they fear listening landlubbers with short attention spans will tune to something else. In the age of Inmarsat, may we never lose the Long wave forecasts...
Yep - Rufus, I'm with you (I think). Offense is in the ear of the beholder. Definitely. And yes, it'll take yoga-like mental contortions to try and anticipate all ways a comment can be taken. yup.
I guess I was thinking of specific examples (on my mind - nothing said here and stupid of me to do this) where the "non-pc" "offensive" comment was actually... just offensive. However, that was all in my head, not referring to anything here and coloured what I'd written. Guess it just shows that something said isn't something heard... your first point!
So... agree on the first bit (second bit is not necessarily the case but maybe often - dunno). Anyway, in agreement and lets debate and say stuff we (hope) isn't just offensive (eg conflating multiculturism with extremism).
Oh btw, my guess is that this blog will be getting tons of spam. And Lissa et al will realise we don't all need to INCreasE the SIZE of various parts of our anatomy. Probably. (actually maybe I should start replying to some of the spam I get....)
Anyway, reason i think this is that blogger.com has a verification element when creating a comment (ie type in the letters you see in the randomly generated image). Automated processes for sending spam can't do this.
I'm not techy so feel free to correct but that's why I think stuff might be getting screwed occasionally (ie floods of stuff, people deleting multiples etc).
re: the speeding cop. Soon after hearing the cop's lawyer defended him for practicing high speed with a new car I passed Millbrook training ground and thought - if a cop wants to safely practice driving fast why not go there or a race track? He may be competent at 140 mph, but pity any drivers who may have been in his way or not reacted the right way as he approached. He should have been treated like any normal road user and done!
Oh ... not sure where my rushed reply to Tobias went to. It's probably circling the ether only to reappear in a few weeks time during a debate on agriculture. Apologies if it does – here’s another try.
I don’t think that I’m trivializing the debate at all. This is what some people mean by integration. It’s only a tiny, tiny minority that seek to “ … dictate how the population lives” – and they get a disproportionate amount of attention. The vast majority live and work peacefully, contributing greatly to the fabric of Britain. Through the years we have always incorporated people, ideas and language. The debate should be about how we cope with the change without loosing anything good – not how to close the shutters and say “Sorry, we’re full now”.
I agree wholeheartedly with whisht (29) on the spurious definition of culture.
I welcome the debate.
Doesn't Eddie look distinguished in that picture up the top.... which leads me to ask. Exactly how old is the picture at the top of the PM homepage?
@47 Simeon said:
"Other European countries, which shall here remain nameless, shoe-horn the meteo in between their programs"
plus they talk through the pips.
In our house we all stop for the time signal - even for the one that leaked into Today at the wrong time (this morning or yesterday ... time is a blur)
Lets see if this comment makes it.
Nothing has come up for me so far today.
Maybe that number by the comments is the number of moderated out comments - ie 5
Anyway, this maybe my last visit - wife and kids come back from holiday this weekend so I won't be able to waste my days blog watching*.
Tim.C
* Interestingly, like bird watching, someone who 'watches blogs' is called a twitcher - though in this case it's due to the involuntary twitch yet as the hours pass.
PM, “Now too good for a strapline”
Careca
Tobias(2, 23), you quite rightly asked for a debate and you didn't get it and thus had to resort to putting forward a view and then later putting forward a few other views. Not debating and must have been frustrating.
As this is a blog comment I hope you don't mind me replying/ debating in short bullet points - it might sound rude/ abrupt but its a feature of the medium (however please tell me if its offensive as that is absolutely not the intention).
Also having written this I realise its long(!) and you need to read your comment at 23 to know what I'm on about (and even then maybe noone knows what I'm on about...).
a) "ethnic diversity" being a puss filled boil. What do you mean? I honestly don't understand.
b) "the government knows of this and ignores it" - as I don't know what you mean I can't understand this bit
c) "interesting" for the fallout of recent events - again I'm lost. I know you don't mean that the loss of life is interesting or that people being marginalised or fearful or angry or violent is "interesting" so I can't debate this bit
d) why would violent problems to issues only occur in "large cities" (eg the plot was to explode bombs over the Atlantic allegedly involving indiscrimante individuals)
e) "indigenous population" having fewer rights (to voice opinions) - Actually you're right. People staying in this country who were not born here have fewer rights (generally) than those that do. 'Leave of stay' does not allow voting I believe (am I wrong?). Irrespective, both parties have equal opportunities to the media. Does one "side" have better access? Is the media siding with one "side"? Maybe you mean this and if so - maybe you're right, so name and shame them (including Eddie!)
f) I disagree specifically that there are now less opportunities to voice opinion - it was always that we either have parliament, the street corner and the pub. Bit facetuous but I really don't know which forum I lack over those enjoyed by previous generations. Maybe enjoyed is pushing it(!) but no less. Maybe we need more, but this is surely the era when we have access to channels never enjoyed before (ie the internet!).
g) fearing retribution from groups feeling victimised - a constant issue but nothing to do with multiculturalism. If a group think they have no recourse to the laws of the land they may resort to violence (eg some in the pro and anti fox hunting lobby).
h) limiting people coming into the country because of 'problems' with multiculturalism - I can't argue/ debate your point as its based on thinking I do not understand (not that I disagree necessarily - I truly don't understand). btw I think we are forgetting economics which (to me) is far more important than any other aspect.
i) values are not "eroded" unless you have a basis of values. So I can't debate this without knowing what values I'm talking about - you provide the values and I'll happily debate whether we're going forward or backward (I suggested in an earlier post that values evolve and I absolutely believe that 'evolve' does not mean getting better. It means changing.)
j) gosh j already. erm... This government has not been shy in imposing laws to further a way of life. We really have lost a lot of rights under this government. But few I can think of are about multiculturalism and more are to do with our rights to protest or know information (maybe etc).
k) I think that you're right in that there is a tension with how some people express themselves and how that is perceived and I'm with you on this (I think). I remember talking to people recently who said that they didn't know that to say someone was "coloured" was offensive. They thought it was better than saying someone was "black". Actually this was the term that caused less offense (because we are all colured but some are black, some pink some brown and some sunburnt). Non racist peole were winced at but generally once the point was expained then no offence was carried on.
l) "our country" - erm - how? How do I join? If I live here is it enough? I've got a British Passport, is that enough? Can I live abroad and be part of "this country"? Honestly, not being funny, but this is somethng that would be good to discuss as a topic in itself. maybe.
m) multiculturalism is a broad problem - completely and utterly agree!
So (blimey) long winded of me and apologies. Blame the beer. But I think your main points are that debate is censored as it may offend and that there are a central set of values that constitute the culture in the UK at the present.
My points are that I believe that people may be offended but hopefully I (one) can try and understand the offence and get my point across, and that there is no commonly agreed-upon set of values.
Now, the next bit is pure conjecture and maybe its debating but maybe its just offensive - let me know! I think that what you're saying is that actually you are frustrated that you cannot voice your opinions and get your opinions shared in terms of legislation/ contemporary media. This might apply to multiculturism but might also apply to the cultures existing in the UK at the moment (eg rural v city, youth v other, media v non media etc) .
Does this further the debate or muddy the water? I guess I'll find out.
and as before happy to be proven wrong - happy to learn.
and happy to get over my hangover - god, you don't need to walk-the-ball-into-the-net!!!
Hmm "multiculturalism" ok well here's my tuppeneth.
Firstly, i am a brit, but currently work in the gulf and have done these past 7 years now. maybe i have an inside outsider's view as a result.
the whole issue actually revolves around what is is to be british. People have always been emigration to the UK. in the past this has been easily assimilated, and there was none of this talk.
i believe that one of the reasons for having this debate at all stems from the fact that now, more than ever, "Brits" feel that they are loosing their identity as more and more cultures establish themselves in the UK. this is the problem, not the immigration. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis arrived in the country in the 70's and were assimilated with relative ease. After all, the most popular dish in the UK now is a curry.
the problem is is that there is no one source where one can turn to and say - that is what being British means. A good sign of the increasing sense of unease and loss of identity is the energence og the Cross of St George at sporting fixtures. We are so desperate to find something British that we grab at what devices we can find.
I feel that being a member of a culture is about having a shared experience. Often, whilst working out here in the Gulf, i will meet another Brit, and very quickly we will be discussing shared experiences football teams home towns and the like. Knowing that we share the same heritage provides a form of comfort that is almost intangeable, and in fact operates at a subliminal level. i have friends from many other countries out here, and yet one has to work harder to get to know each other, we lack the common heritage.
I don't actually think the poblem lies with multiculturalism, or about immigration. i think we can lay the cause solely at the door of the defining cultural memes that bring us together, whose shared experience is what defines us-TELEVISION.
In my younger days when we only had the four channels, one of the many threads of conversation used to be discussing last night's TV. in a broadcast age it provided a strong form of shared cultural experience that pulled us together and shaped us. it i feel also explained why many of the other cultures were able to assimilate with relative ease as opposed to today.
With today's multi channel sattelite/ freeview extravaganza, it becomes increasingly difficult to find common experience. also there are so many specialised channels, that if one is Polish ,for instance, one can get Polish TV channels broadcast on satellite.
I must say that as an educator, who feels strongly that TV is the death of teaching, i never thought i would be defending TV! Yet as a broadcast medium that united us it was priceless.
Does Malcolm Gluck his wine?
Earlier this morning I was re-reading the debate about the calendar (sad, I know) and was going to reply to one post that mentioned my post, but the whole very interesting topic seems to have disappeared. Anybody know where it went? Too argumentative for the moderator, or what?
Hi all, a multi-comment blog here, and covers topics here and in not waving.
Calendar. I've looked at the html code of this, it's rather odd. I have to use [ and ] here, not the greater than and less than characters, which don't print up. Anyway, the code is
[td]
2
[/td]
But when there is an entry, it converts to
[td]
     [ahref...]21[/a]
[/td]
(actually the [ahref....]... is pushed over to the right more)
(why not [td]2[/td] etc.?).
The numbers get emboldened when the ahref line goes in (obviously there is a set up somewhere that emboldens the number rather than the usual underline that is the default for the making of a link).
So I think the wierd spacing is due to the number of space characters between the [td] and the [/td]. I also guess that if the ahref line was simplified, and all the space characters removed, the calendar would be more even (possibly crushed a little over the weekend as there will never be a link on those dates). Since humans would normally do this sort of thing anyway, I think the calendar may be autogenerated. Something for Tony the coder to look at?
Crap montage. I've emailed Eddie and Lissa asking the situation regarding copyright, (can we keep a copy, can we distribute an mp3 of it etc), awaiting a reply.
Serious discussion My thoughts are that this is the wrong forum for that. Eddie's entries are hardly the start of a serious discussion on some topic of the day, is it a surprise that we follow in the same light-hearted vein? There are plenty of discussion groups run on the bbc web site, anything from the Archers to sport, and include news via the Today programme, and these are linked from the bottom of the PM home page.
Of course I'm in no position to criticise others for putting a serious entry into this blog, they are perfectly free to do so (and some of us irreverent bloggers may actually make a serious comment too), but in my opinion, this blog has been set up for the light-hearted stories of what happened in the newsroom etc, so those who do want to discuss something serious here should not be too surprised if the serious is intercut with the irreverent.
Well, that's my opinion on the matter.
It's amazing what you'll do not to do work.
Being British - of course all us PM listeners are far too educated and intelligent to confuse being British with being English. So I'm assuming the comment at 44 was a slip of the key. The flag of St George denotes England, not Britain. There is no British flag.
(ducks behind door-and-mattress shelter)
Just a quick note on html for John W
The whitespace (the spaces and new lines) are ignored when the browser renders the page, therefore
<tr><td>Cell Contents</td></tr>
is exactly the same as
<tr>
ĚýĚý&±ôłŮ;łŮ»ĺ&˛µłŮ;
    Cell Contents
ĚýĚý&±ôłŮ;/łŮ»ĺ&˛µłŮ;
</tr>
The second method is to make the code easier for the author to understand, and is common (and best) practice.
BTW why do you have a problem doing <p> and the like - it's easy ;-)
Sorry couldn't resist.
Tim.C
John W,
As a long time listener to PM I have noticed that the program is being monopolised by the first 'news' item and it can last for 20-25 minutes. This ain't news, it if effing boring. Also, PM is fast becoming The Eddie Meir Show, aaand he spends very little time on the blog. What do you think?
paul (44) - interesting point(s)!
So, the issue is not multiculturalism but "multichannelism".
[apologies - couldn't resist]
So Culture is "shared experience". I can go with that. And 'identity' for Brits (or perhaps more specifically the English?) is something that is ill-defined or at least troubling. Perhaps like a lot of identities, identity is being defined as what 'we' are not. This period of self discovery will inevitably be troubling when it is taking place at the same time as many more people who are 'not' are entering the country. It is hardly surprising that people feel worried if before they can define what they are, more and more people who are what-they-are-not enter that culture.
So I'd ask for tolerance of people who might get maligned (as Tobias intimated) when it is not racism but questioning and perhaps self discovery that is going on.
Me? I'm 2nd gen and went through a period of "what am i?" supporting 2 teams etc. Identified myself as what my mum and dad are and then laughed when I was told with a chuckle by all my relations "Of course you're English"! Proud of me roots and distrust nationalism in the same way I distrust salesmen (y'know that knee-jerk "erm.. now hold-on-a-cotton-pickin'-minute" way). But of course nationalisma nd multiculturalism are different. aren't they..?
As for the waning power of TV its probably just drowning in low quality "unscripted television".
So not waning but drowning.
[blimey - have i been able to be both serious and irreverent? or simply smart-arsed?
I'm with John W on the fact this blog was meant to be everything behind the news that isn't fit to print (or blogged!) and there are lots of other arenas for discussion.
But I just can't resist sometimes, especially if I think I might learn something! and I have so far from Tobias, paul, John W etc so thanks!]
oops mentioned people by name and that means I forgot people.
duh.
apologies and thanks to those I didn't mention...
Looks like #50 will be my regular spot. Can you pre-book it?
The etherial "Saturday" disappeared (#50 in Not Waving) at the same time as the hanster stopped turning the wheel that drives my computer (approx 11.05 yesterday evening). After an good nights rest he seems in good form now.
I have an extension which I find quite useful. Lissa should take note, when preparing the blogsite, of this fact as I am sure I am not alone in this.
Perhaps it should make it clear this has nothing to do with tight fitting underpants and world peace, but is for my browser. It allows me to turn small pictures into big pictures.
The pictures of Peter and Roger show that it is de rigeur at PM to have at least two keyboards on your desk. Do you feel this could be a contributory factor to my difficulties with HTMLblogbrackets?
Tim C's reference to whitespace concerns me as I continue to have difficulties with cyberspace ignoring me and my browser
Again I would add a smiling face here but the preview key shows me that Eric is definitely not up to the challenge
Hi Tim C,
Well you look at the calendar code and explain it!
Actually, I've looked at it again, this evening, and first time the calendar had changed again, and there are a load of entries about Liverpool, and nothing about Eddies blogs! After a preview, the real one returned, and the only difference I can see, Tim, is more carriage returns in lines where the gap is larger in some cases.
Since my html code is normally per your example for exactly those reasons, I don't get the wierd spacing of cells (unless the contents are of different length, when, of course, you expect it). The [ahref..... etc (how do you get the greater than/less than characters) should not show up, so what else is there that changes the cell size? But I'm not a computer programmer, I just happen to do it from time to time, or write scripts to output html code etc, purely on an amateur basis. And no, I do not mean as a professional amateur, either.
As this is the first blog I've contributed to, I've yet to work out how to get some of the special characters, in writing the previous entry, in preview all the code characters "disappeared". Writing scripts have similar problems of using characters such as ", which I know the get-arounds, I don't for these for blogs. For example I found that putting the html code in for changing font colour (the oxygen blue entry) did not work in preview, and Tim, you clearly have blogged more than me and presumably know how to get the more complex html into a blog entry, as well as the [td] example.
So the Calendar mystery deepens both in the wierd spacing, and why there were suddenly Liverpool entries reinforces my idea that it's autogenerated.
Methinks Lissa's going to be tightening Eddie's underpants tomorrow morning. Unless it's Sequin standing in; she does seem to have a strange and unusual punishment, being on everything from Today to World Tonight .
Firstly, this thread has been a pleasure to read – the tone is just right. The attitude of “seeking” rather than “arrived”. There is plenty of elbow room for the contributing comments on Eddie’s blog to be - in turns - silly, lost, serious or whatever. Incidentally, have you noticed that in both the PM newsletter and the blog, Eddie lights the blue touch paper and then walks away smiling. A few lines and we are all emailing like mad. I’ve certainly not done this before; I think someone mentioned that the other day. Not your average PM listener thing.
Anyway, more good, bad and ugly thoughts on multiculturalism.
I’m not convinced that multiculturalism in itself is actually a problem. It’s often perceived to be, but is it the actual cause? As we walk down the street, do we care what language is being spoken behind the front door, what customs and conventions they have, do we care what which religion is being practiced in the places of worship we pass. Mostly no, I’d say. If they don’t break the law or cause trouble what difference if they are from Tunbridge Wells or Timbuktu. I think the problems in Britain can be more accurately called Tribalism. We are all pretty much at it. Anywhere between “being slightly suspicious of” to demonizing someone who is just not like you. It’s everywhere, even between motorists, cyclists and pedestrians if the letters pages of newspapers are to be believed. Someone squawks an alarm and we all huddle together for safety.
Here’s an example …
A recent ICM poll asked the question of 500 Muslims:
Would you support or oppose there being areas of Britain which are pre-dominantly Muslim and in which Sharia Law is introduced? 40% supported the idea.
A gift to the Daily Mail if ever I saw one. But why is this such a surprise? If you popped into your local church and asked for a show of hands as to whether the congregation want all laws passed by parliament to be compatible with Christian values I think you’d probably get more than 40%. But what does it matter? Neither is going to happen. There are plenty of people who seek to tell us how to live, from politicians, journalists, medical profession on to religious folk. We quite happily ignore them if we want to and carry on as before. And anyway, the UK Polling Report website says that the respondents were probably thinking of a more limited version of Sharia law that deals with divorce and contract law – a subtlety lost in the headline.
Incidentally, in the same poll, 91% said they were either “Quite Loyal” or “Very Loyal” to Britain – but that’s not newsworthy.
Well, that’s my perspective at the moment. Convince me otherwise …
p.s. I’ve just noticed that the percentages in the “loyalty” question in the ICM poll add up to 104%!! Hahahahaha!
"Well you look at the calendar code and explain it!"
OK if you insist ;-)
There are no width definitions in the table itself, so it is taking the width of the largest cell in the column. For each column this is the day at the top.
The font is proportionally spaced so for example Wed is longer than Fri.
Wed
Fri
The embolden links would be styled via a CSS style sheet - there are lots of them affecting the page. This is the same as for the webpage link on the poster's name.
As for the < and > that is a problem because the symbols get interperetted as html.
To get around this, there are codes you can use to produce these symbols.
A couple of examples (with spaces, so they display)
& lt ; gives < - ie less than
& gt ; gives > - ie greater than
& nbsp ; is a non-breaking space
The semicolon is very important. People miss this off, and MS kindly allow this in IE, but if you do this, every other browser (ie those that do what they're supposed to) will go wrong.
Of course, you also have to remember that this comment box is not just html - it gets processed before it reaches the html - so not all html tricks will work.
Have fun
Tim.C
I have to agree with the comments on the tone of this blog - in fact (sadly, possibly) I was thinking long and deep during my P & Q with Pluto yesterday - and came to exactly the same conclusion. Eric's day-brightening newsletters and now blog jump-off comments are just precisely what set us all off!
How cathartic would we all find it to chunter on drily? I'm sure we all could, if required, but why would we?
" 54. At 10:34 PM on 27 Aug 2006, Charles Hatton wrote:
p.s. I’ve just noticed that the percentages in the “loyalty” question in the ICM poll add up to 104%!! Hahahahaha! "
Does that not show just how well the poll-ees have accepted the oft-stated loyalist principle of "Vote early; vote often".
I wrote yesterday and complained about PM, Eddie, and the Blog and my post wasn't printed. Can't take the heat? I won't be posting again.
OK, since that one appeared, I will post again, but only one more time.
I just made several posts appear that I thought were deleted and then disappear again just by switching calendar dates. Is this The Time Machine, or what? Does anybody else have that happen?
I'm in total agreement with Charles hatton at 54.
I'd add that, although not necessarily in terms of the latest strain of terrorism, but economics rather than ecumenical concerns tend to be the root cause of much of our anxieties and violence (when that happens).
As for tone - hurrah for flippance and tuppenance's
David (#59),
There were two blogs on Friday, perchance you posted in Not Waving, rather than Glug?
John W,
Thankyew. Well, that explains the 'missing' posts, but not the ones not mentioned in 58. Two bloody blogs on one day. How long has that been going on?
I complained that the first 'news' item on PM went on and on and on, taking up nearly half of the program, Eddie doesn't appear on his blog very much, and PM is turning into the Eddie Meir Show. Maybe it is somewhere in A N Other blog.
Friday was the first day of two blogs. If you just did a ctrl-R to refresh the page with the comments, you would have missed the second blog. If you look, Stephen, leader of STROP, alerted the Not Waving blog to the new Glug blog. I agree, it was confusing that.
It's also 13:00, no newsletter or blog so far today (nor answer about the crap montage). Will we get them today as it's a bank holiday?
John W,
Yeah, these show-biz types. Take off whenever they feel like and it and think we hang on their every word. Well I got news for you, Eddie Weddie, I also participate in a forum that I can always go to, so don't get to big for your tight underpants!!
PS Sorry about the spelling in post 62. Make that Eddie Mayor.
you see John (52) some of us are only too happy to have the EM show rather than the PM show, but this is because Eddie is just so darned good. I am still awestruck at the memory of an interview he did quite a long time back with someone from an expolitative trainer company - as in sports shoes as opposed to 'how to'. Not rude, bnot pushy, not interrupting, just relentlessly polite and full of commons sense.
Anne,
Do you mean 'David (62)'? Yes, I'll admit, Eddie is very witty and swave, but PM is supposed to be a news program. Yes, yes, I know that it is followed by the bongs and the 6 o'clock news, and nothing is set in stone, and nothing lasts forever, but then.....where was I?? Back after I see who is doing what at 5 o'clock in the PM slot.
What was that funny report Edwardio did a few weeks back where he had to try to sound somber and keep a straight face?
I like anne's 'commons sense'. Just what a presenter who interviews politicians needs.
(grin)
Blast! I just did a post, went off to check on another comment on the OTHER strand before sending it and when I came back my post had disappeared!
I will recap briefly, - apologies to both John and David for not double checking who had been badmouthing EM. That's memory for you as you get older - erratic.
Take your point about PM being a news program but it isn't THE NEWS is it, that comes on at 6. I see PM as being slightly more leisured and more exploratory rather than just reporting. And I think it suits EM's style very well. It also suits me better; I listen to PM but tend to wander off and do something more important when the news comes on, like dishwashing.
The other strand, - someone was mentioning Nigel doing well with Des Browne, and I just wanted to ask - is it me, or do members of the govt. increasingly 'not hear' awkward questions but manage to have miraculously clear lines when they can say somthing positive. I thought I heard this start before the last election and it seems to be a growing tendency. Surely it's not a taught tactic for staving off awkward journos!
I found Eddie’s remark the other day more than a little amusing - if the entire population of Britain stood on each other’s shoulders, they’d get to about twenty-foot high before all toppling over.....
Anne
I'm with you on the "sorry Nigel I can't hear anything you're saying at the moment" chestnut - the old ones are the best eh? Think it was my post you're referring to?
Bizarrely enough, Toninho, I also pointed out Eric's population toppling scenario the other day - because I laughed at it so much I nearly crashed the car.
This, imho, is the big attraction of EM's delivery of PM; as Anne says - if it were to be merely straightfaced news, then why separate PM from the 6 0'clock stuff when it could all swill around under the same title? It must be intended to be a bit special - and it is thank goodness.
Anne,
Yes, I'll admit EM is very amusing. I just don't want him to get a big head. Tight underpants is enough.
Aaaand, the entire population of the world could fit in the Grand Canyon. Feeding that many people could be a problem, however...
I am 66, so old age is no excuse.
Valery,
I laughed so much I nearly crashed the washing up.
Could you let me have the current address for my neighbour to write to Eddia Mair as she is not on line.