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I suspect Obama knows he doesn't have to bother with someone who's obviously incompetent and won't matter at all in a few months.

Nick, this is getting to be a bit like a soap opera. It is bizarre. Lots of staged events and rewritten scripts. Please explain why President Obama snubbed him? Is it because of the Lockerbie nonsense? Or because he doesn't want to be associated with a loser? Or because he just doesn't like Mr Brown. If they went to have 15 minutes chat in the kitchen, what were they chatting about? Surely you have had a hint?

Lets be honest - President Obama has got an enormous task to re-build the USA's image outside the US and plenty of battles with the Senate to drive his policies forward. So foregoing a meeting with the PM is hardly surprising whatever precedents may have gone before. I don't attach much importance to this issue.

hi Nick,

the two leaders met for what is described in diplomatic circles as a "walk and talk" meeting in the kitchens of the UN

like that image! think I can really picture it - Gordon talking, I would imagine, and Obama doing the walking (away) - gather it's an issue of personal chemistry (or lack of) - in fact, I seem to recall seeing a quote that Barack finds Gordon "depressing to be around" ... which is fair enough, I guess - I mean he's our Prime Minister, isn't he? - he's not Eddie Izzard or Russ Abbott - he's Gordon Brown - would you want Eddie Izzard (or Russ Abbott, for that matter) in charge of bailing out the banking system? - exactly - non story

Maybe the President didn't like being called "Obama Beach".

Why do you report this 'story' and not that Brown won the World Statesman of the Year Award:



I think you're very moderate in your comments Nick, but sometimes I do feel a Tory bias comes through in what you decide to actually report.

Not surprise that Obama doesn't want to speak to the Invisible Man, the vast majority of people over here don't want to either.

Fairness Fighter:

You are funny! :o)

So Gordon the great YouTube orator is given a gong by Kissinger - the man who ordered the Christmas Day bombing of Hanoi during the Vietnam War and was then awarded a 'peace prize' . . . equally laughable.

How quickly you seem to have forgotten the 10p tax band removal, by Gordon Brown, which plunged 6 million of the lowest paid into serious financial difficulty. And all to gain a short term advantage over the Tories at just one PMQ's.

You Labour supporters really are a dwindling bunch who refuse to acknowledge the abject corruption at the heart of the Labour Party.

Thankfully, in less than 8 months; the rotting corpse that is the Labour Party will be removed for good, by the electorate at the General Election.

The majority of honest, hard working people despise Labour.

"Rock star Bono, Queen Rania of Jordan, and New Israeli defence minister Ehud Barak were among the audience as Mr Kissinger praised Mr Brown for his "vision and dedication" in handling the world economic crisis"

vision? dedication?
thats the best laugh ive had in a long while!

i wouldnt trust brown with an apple, let alone an economy that had almost no deficit at all
he created a deficit of more than £175 billion pounds that will take lots of higher taxation/drastic cuts in services and spending, which will last for decades!
he hasnt given the taxpayer one single penny piece in return, instead opting to put business and banks whilst the people struggle.

"Would you like fries with that Mr. President?"

"Traditionally, in recent years the British prime minister and US president have held a bilateral meeting at major summits followed by a news conference."

Really? At all major summits? I know it has (independence aside) always been that we hold news conferences after prearranged bilateral meatings, but at big international summits? What "recent years" are we talking about here? The Bush years? Obama is trying to move away from that. So perhaps his denial of a news conference with Brown wasn't entirely a snub to him, but rather a bold attempt at showing the world that a new page has been turned in America's outlook on the international comunity and the United Nations. Brown need not take it too personally.


"This story has echoes of the prime minister's first visit to the Obama White House, when the Americans refused to hold the traditional full news conference and the president gave the Brown family a boxed set of DVDs - a gift which was widely criticised for being impersonal and cheap."

What about when Brown first became prime minister and visited Camp David to meat with president Bush? Does this story have echoes of that as well? Politicions aren't stupid. If the people of a leader's country don't particularly like the leader of another country, then the former leader will do everything within their power to show that while they are strong partners with the latter, they are not old high school buddies in order to keep their ratings up and perhaps get reelected. Brown did it with Bush's poor standing among the British people, and Obama is doing it with Brown's among the American people. It happens. Its nothing to get bent out of shape over. New leaders will come and new friendships forged. Don't worry.


"It is thought likely that in response to these headlines, the White House will now move publicly to reassure the British about the continuing strength of the special relationship."

Since when did the term "special relationship" come to define how close any particular president and prime minister are at any given moment in time? To me that's not what it means, and nor does it mean that to the majority of Americans. Yes it is wise for Obama to move to smooth things over, but be assured the "continuing strength of the special relationship" is not due to how well Obama and Brown get along. It is due to (as successive leaders have said over and over again) our shared culture, language and values. Unless now that has been said so much by so many officials in our respective countries that it is now no longer taken seriously by anyone anymore and is regarded as mere fiction. And if that is true, then I think it is very, very sad indeed.

"Snub"

"Gaffe"

"U-turn"

Is it me or do these things seem to dominate political commentary these days?

I guess it's what people genuinely want to see and read.

They want to hear about "embarrassment" ("Minister, are you embarrassed by this?")

They want to jump on any change of mind and shout "Gotcha!"

They want to see people squirm, or imagine them squirming. Like rejection in the playground at school, they want to see powerful people being "snubbed" by even more powerful people.

When did we become so spiteful? And does a political commentator have a duty to rise above any of this? Wasn't there a time when this stuff was restricted to the tabloids?

I honestly don't know why anyone would become a politician these days.

silent hunter @ 8

the majority of honest, hard working people despise Labour

don't think so - let's say there's 10 million honest, hard working people in the country (and I include you plus all your friends and family, obviously!) and let's further say that every single one of them will NOT be voting Labour in 2010 - okay? - right, and then we hit them with the following trinary ...

you will not be voting Labour MAINLY because:

(a) you're tired of them
(b) you're disappointed in them
(c) you despise them

then I bet you ... bet you any money ... that we'd get a close result between A and B, with C bringing up the rear (we can do it if you want)

Was the talk in the kitchens before or after Brown's speech to nobody at the UN? I saw it on TV and there were about 5 people there. Our international standing is now so damaged even making the token gesture of considering reducing nuclear weapons is missed for a cup of coffee and a donut.

What a tragedy for we the british people!

Brown, World Statesman of the Year?! I think we ought to know who picked/voted for him, and then find out who let them out of the Asylum.


"Rock star Bono, Queen Rania of Jordan, and New Israeli defence minister Ehud Barak were among the audience as Mr Kissinger praised Mr Brown for his "vision and dedication" in handling the world economic crisis"

Later Mr Barak and Queen Rania admitted they thought they were attending a Bono Concert; Bono claimed he thought he was giving a Concert in aid of the World's poor, and as Mr Brown was leader of them, he was not surprised to see him attending. Whilst Mr Kissinger said 'having been out of Office for so long, he now was one of the World's poor'

SilentHunter2

"How quickly you seem to have forgotten the 10p tax band removal, by Gordon Brown, which plunged 6 million of the lowest paid into serious financial difficulty."

This is a bit off-topic, but you do get that *Brown introduced the 10p tax band in the first place* (and as an interim measure whilst Labour tax credits came into place, as it happens). You can criticize it if you like, but to do so from a Conservative point of view really makes very little sense.

But don't worry, you might banish us Labour supporters for a term or two but we'll be back. And when we are, we're going to steal YOUR wallet. Mwa ha ha ha haa :o)

And back on topic, didn't the White House refuse that first press conference because they were refusing ALL press conferences at that stage Nick, or had that slipped your mind?

"Obama snub denied by Brown camp"

Well. they would say that wouldn't they?

Clearly it was a snub. Recent revelations that the release of Al-Megrahi was actually tied up with trade deals after all, despite previous denials, has shown this labour government in a very poor light.

However, despite all that, Obama is probably being short sighted. Although Britain is not a major power, it is still a reliable ally. Obama should have held his nose and granted Brown an audience.

13. At 00:54am on 24 Sep 2009, sagamix wrote:
silent hunter @ 8
you will not be voting Labour MAINLY because:
(a) you're tired of them
(b) you're disappointed in them
(c) you despise them
then I bet you ... bet you any money ... that we'd get a close result between A and B, with C bringing up the rear (we can do it if you want)
===============
Hmm, on a quick straw poll of us honest unworking people, at least I think we are honest, we are certainly unworking (well 2 of us and 1 short time) (c) comes out top. But then as I said, I am not working anymore, thanks to The World Statesman of the Year. Still, look on the bright side, whether its A, B or C, they're toast come the election, and if political rumours are to be believed, Brown maybe toasted before then! Sadly the Tory Blair is likely to end up in Office, sigh.

Well sagamix post 13

Interesting that you think that less than 17 percent of the population are honest hard working folks, that a fairly low number of your fellow citizens

Nick I doubt that Obama is snubbing Brown but having taken over from Bush a great nation’s leader who hand lost the plot the White House aids are not wanting to then have him talking to much to other world leaders who fit the same bill as Bush. Now that makes an interesting list.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Nick:

I am sorry, that Obama was snubbed in the Brown
Camp....

=Dennis Junior=

#21 Dennis_Junior

Dennis I think you have got it wrong. I was Brown who was snubbed by Obama.

it sounds too much of a fuzz over a comment we have no idea who actually made it.
I wonder what would be the purpose of this so wanted and then "snubbed" meeting. Let us know if any source tells you.
or maybe that can be added in the front page to balance the story, or to give any relevance.

Which part of "I won't be seen talking to that loser" don't Labour apologists understand? The real story, Nick, would be whether or not Frau Merkel and M Sarkosky received the same "Outasight" treatment.

When Brown came to power he distanced himself from George Bush because he knew he was on his way out. Now he is getting his come uppance

Whoever spotted this earlier on a previous blog comment about Brown's 'lack of a meeting' with OB, well done. Looks like this blog is making the news now?

In a way its a classic example of why Brown is so poor as PM. He fails to achieve any results and then has to back to track, when it all goes wrong. The public is not fooled, but the PM seems to think that he has. I am sure you are right that it might be a little storm in a tea cup, but it just feels like another brick in the wall.

Off to listen the PM's interview on the Simon Mayo show. Been told it is hilarious, perhaps it is a good job that there wasn't a press conference with OB. No doubt he would still be having to field questions about Lawbreakers making laws.

Well, I was going to contribute something to this, but I think that most of us appear to have made our minds up already and our cynical take on it is probably accurate.

Even yours Saga, in post 4. I know I rib you constantly, but the vision of Obama trying to walk away through the kitchens with Brown tailing him, pushing kitchen staff to one side, yakking away "..but M-M-Mr President...." did give me an early morning chortle.

World statesman of the year, indeed. What a hoot. Empty and meaningless to everyone outside of the Downing St Spin Bunker.

post #1 says it all, why would Obama bother with Brown?

"Bono thought he was giving a Concert in aid of the world's poor."

I thought Bono was to announce he was giving his personal fortune in aid of the poor of Africa. Amazing how your expectations can be proved wrong.

Why would Obama want to associate with a loser who completely lacks any leadership credentials? Brown would not say whether he supported the release of the Lockerbie bomber - some leader huh! Brown could not even bring himself to sack an Attorney General who has broken the law (not that Obama would concern himself with that) - Brown is a loser, a loser, a loser - it is as simple as that!

Call an election now!

27. At 07:35am on 24 Sep 2009, Fubar_Saunders

Just goes to show how our country, and planet is, truly, in the safest of hands.

The right folk to get us out of [all of] this, indeed.

Oh, and...

/blogs/nickrobinson/2009/09/gaddafis_speech.html

Four.. and then out. Is this a record?

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama took out a restraining order next...

Seriously though, how's Brown going to handle this snub from his 'Chosen One'?? Reports are that he's not in the best of mental states as it is... Will this send him over the edge?

31#

Probably.

For now.

You wait til election night.

All the blogs will probably be closed, someone will connect an ethernet cable directly from Millbank in broadcast mode and no-one will be allowed a contrary opinion on anything.

16#

Yes, you probably will be back. But most of us will be pushing up daisies by then.

I thought Brown said he wanted to distance himself from the Americans?

Now they are ignoring any 'special relationship' and treating him like the leader of any of the minor nations.

Obama saw leaders from the major countries eg. China. He didn't personally meet leaders from Latvia, Belgium, Egypt etc

Brown needs to re-assess his place in the world. Why should Obama put time aside to see the leader from a small, failing state like the disunited kingdom?

hack @ 19

interesting you think that less than 17 percent of the population are honest hard working folks, that's a fairly low number of your fellow citizens

I can prove it - our start point is, say, 50m if we don't count miniatures, and the phrase "honest, hard working" implies the person has to be BOTH those things - so we don't count people who work their socks off but are prone to mendacity (5m) or those who are honest as the day is long, but don't exactly bust a gut at work (another 10m) - leaves us with 35m - now, with the assumption we're talking about paid employment, we knock out all the retirees, the unemployed, and the stay at home mothers - that takes the 35m down to 10,000,003 - final step is to deduct the 3 guys who've agreed to give up their jobs, bring up the kids, in order to allow their higher earning wives the chance to concentrate on their careers ... the House Husbands, if you like ... and lo and behold, we're there ... the 10 million as quoted

I was on a transatlantic cruise back in 2005. One of the lecturers was a former press secretary to both Reagan and Bush senior ( Martin Fitzwaller). Asked about the "special relationship" he laughed - only when it suits the US. Basically the US wants a "poodle" like Blair to help them when international sentiment needs apparent multinational support.
Today the US needs the support of China, India and Germany, not an over indebted nation with a weak currency and no significant industry as the UK is now.

lol, Brown really doesn't understand how insignificant he is! Even if he wasn't an intellectual pygmy who wont be in power much longer, why would Obama priorities him to teh same level as economic powerhouses like China, Russia & Japan?

We are just an insignificant little island nowadays and the sooner we realise that the better.

I wouldn't let Mr Brown in my house either - the man's a jinx, we'd be left with a red-faced mr brown trying to explain how the collapse of th white house was a global problem & nothing to do with him...

"This story has echoes of the prime minister's first visit to the Obama White House, when the Americans refused to hold the traditional full news conference and the president gave the Brown family a boxed set of DVDs - a gift which was widely criticised for being impersonal and cheap."

Was it 'little britain USA' by any chance?

Lets face it would you be interested in talking openly to a total boor, and have him take your focus away from more important business.
Nick at great expense to the taxpayer you are travelling with Brown, and it needs more than this mundane and petty story to keep us interested.

I never cease to be surprised at the amount of people (Including political journalists!) who do not know what the "Special Relationship" is. Immediately prior to and in, WWII, a "Special Relationship" was formed between the two intelligence gathering communities of the US and UK, to allow the flow of classified information between the UK/US secret services. It was never a political relationship, nor was it ever based upon the "Two nations divided by a common language" principle, nor was it ever because the two countries love each other. It was a purely practical arrangement to allow two countries to defeat a common enemy. that relationship continued through the cold war and does so currently in the face of islamic terrorism and the percieved threat from the "Axis of Evil"

When the US is let down by say, France, they are disappointed. However, when they are severely let down by what they percieve and are repeatedly told is their best friend, they are totally miffed. Just like you and I are when let down badly by a close friend. The release of the Lockerbie bomber, so obviously engineered, was a huge let down for the PEOPLE of the US.

I was in New York in 1986 for the rededication of the Statue of Liberty, an event which coincided with the bombing of Libya by US planes which took off from UK. We were Americas best friends then. From that very good high, we have sunk to our present level. I, for one, do not blame Mr Obama for showing Mr Brown how the American PEOPLE feel. I would welcome the opportunity to snub Mr Brown, and in June of next year, you will see that most of the population of the UK will welcome the opportunity to snub him too.

Obama is a busy man, unlike Brown he genuinely has the power to make a difference. People are reading too much into this "snub".

16. FairnessFighter wrote:
But don't worry, you might banish us Labour supporters for a term or two but we'll be back.

Like a fungal infection... :-)

"....people who work their socks off but are prone to mendacity (5m)"

Blimey, I never thought the Labour party's membership was that big!

Or is that just the number of SpAds currently wearing the red rosette behind closed doors in Whitehall??

When is a snub not a snub?

When Gordon Browns aides say it is not a snub.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if there is any history of self denial?

Fact remains, Mr President felt it more important to have meetings with other heads of state rather than our own.

You kind of get the impression of Mr Brown bumbling around behind Obama through the kitchen trying to say how nice he looks today, and ..'did you like my email?, I sent you some flowers did you get them?... I wrote you a poem!'

Bless

Panic in No 10, now why does that not come as a surprise? Tell me why President Obama, the most high profile and powerful leader on the globe would waste time with a loser like Gordon Brown? A man whose Government is collapsing about his ears with ministers who formulate legislation and then are the first to breach it. Previously loyal and dedicated MP's who feel they can no longer support what is rapidly beginning to look like a failed state. And the PM himself who changes direction with the wind (if he ever set a course in the first place). A walkabout meeting in the UN kitchens - I don't think so. This was probably a failed attempt by the President to escape the attentions of a "leader" clutching at straws to get a photo opportunity and some favourable press. These days are gone Gordon - get out now while you can.

Picture the scene: (with thanks to Guido!)

Gordon: Mr President could you pass the salt?
Barack : Sure. How is Tony?
Gordon : He’s fine I imagine. Nice weather you are having for this time of year.
Barack : Gotta go. Enjoy your tofu. Tell David I’ll see him next year. See you in Pittsburgh.

:-)

I have it on good authority the reason why they were in the kitchen. Obama was making humble pie for Brown to eat.

It's rather sad.

Anyone with any dignity would have put out feelers for a meeting, been told there wasn't time and accepted it.

Brown demeans himself by accepting an invitation which basically amounts to Obama saying "I'm walking from here to there and if you happen to be walking in the same direction at the same time and at the same speed as me then we can talk".

No class, Mr Brown, no class. The only way it could have got worse would have been if he asked Obama for his autograph.

I can't believe it - the TV is now calling it a "diplomatic row".

Talk about kerfuffle! Still, it's good fodder for the media. It's simple: there are bigger emerging nations than the UK. It's time to reflect on that. Besides, who wants Brown?

Sagamix at 35

Good to see you are following the governments guide lines on producing statistics to support the argument.

The only surprise is that anyone is surprised about. Obama has the sense to realise that Brown is on his way out - and soon. So too have the majority of the British people. Thank goodness.

A couple of things spring to mind following yesterdays events at the UN.

1)Will Labours election campaign be featuring the well known song by Jonah Louie ie "You will always find him in the kitchen at parties"?
and :-
2)I notice the award el GORDO rec'd as stateswoman of the year was a flying bird.

I expect the haedlines in world media will be
"Gord gets the bird from the UN"

Well done Saga, a classic example of New Labour at its best. First make a claim containing some random "fact" - in this case there are only 10 million honest hard-working people in the UK. Then when challenged, spout rubbish and come up with the answer you first thought of. So, let's see. You claim 10% are liars, and 20% are NOT hard-working (evidence please) and have assumed there is no-one who is both a liar AND a layabout. Very bad maths there! You then make the rash assumption that honest and hard-working means PAID employment, giving you the opportunity to exclude those who work hard and tell the truth in any other walk of life. Finally you claim there are only 3 house-husbands in the country - well there's myself and my two mates in my town, so that figure is woefully undervalued!

Also, your first (and major) mistake - you have argued on the basis that "The majority of honest, hard working people despise Labour" means that the MAIN reason for NOT VOTING labour is despising them. Of course it doesn't, but it does allow you to try your numbers game again. What rubbish. We all know there are MANY reasons for not voting labour, them being despicable is just one! And, if it helps, I know several Labour voters who despise the current government. They'll still vote Labour because they hate the Tories more, but it doesn't stop them despising Gordon and his mates.

Must try harder, Saga, must try harder!

@saga 35

Fascinating how you've arrived at that figure, co-incidentally it's also about the number of people who are in the (productive) private sector....

What a complete nonsense !. What on earth are they doing there anyway, Gadaffi is given a stage for an hour and a half of meglomanic rant . It realy all so meaningless. Just another stage for thee people to strut on.
Then we have the award to Gordon Brown and in attendance Bono. Who is this idiot who likes to think he has some influence on the world stage? He's an Irish pop singer for crying out loud.Put the vote he would be put on a desert island never to have been heard of again. Hopefully! We do not have special relationship with the USA, we tag along on their coat tails in the hope of being given a few crumbs from their table. The special relationship extended to them charging us every penny for goods supplied to us in WW2 but giving the japanese and the Germans everything supplied to them afterwards. To the victor the spoils, i don't think so.
We need to stand on our own two feet and tell them you can afford these wars we can not. We are now constantlypunching above our weight, it will come home to roost eventually.

grawth @ 53

finally you claim there are only 3 house husbands in the country - well there's myself and my two mates in my town, so that figure is woefully undervalued!

no Grawth, that's what I meant, you guys - heard about you - so that's 3 right? ... what I said

50. At 10:35am on 24 Sep 2009, hack-round wrote:
Sagamix at 35

Good to see you are following the governments guide lines on producing statistics to support the argument.

===

72% of statistics are made up.

Saga, one fatal flaw in your made up statistics, you forgot to put "FACT" in capitals, which as we all know, automatically turns whatever is being stated into a fact. FACT!

Snub or no snub, naysay or prosay it's probably true, as it fits the profile of Gordon Brown as a serial loser. Like the ''I saved the world'' slip, and many other occasions ON A DAILY BASIS. It would be funny if his incompetence was'nt costing lives in Afghan and a wasted generation economically here in the UK. If the cap fits you've gotta wear it. Gordon's desperately trying to fit into the PM suit but has never managed it. He did'nt even fill out the Chancellors gear adequately. For the electorate he's a very bad act that needs dragging off with a marlinspike. Everyone knows the man does'nt cut it. The man's inadequacy has become the story and its game over.
Who wrote Nick has a Tory bias? (FairnessFighter -LOL) This is the ±«Óãtv he works for, they only recruit from the Guardian. Even the venerable Gruniad has given up on Gordon Brown.

"Prime Minister Brown"? Please Nick, in this country it's either "the Prime Minister" or "Gordon Brown", not a mixture.

@ 56 - oh good grawth ... just checked back and you're absolutely right! - my analysis assumed that laziness and lying are mutually exclusive, when clearly they're not - let's quickly adjust! - must be 9,999,995 people who are idle AND deceitful, and we need to deduct those from our 10 million, don't we? ... so, revised estimate is there are a total of FIVE honest, hard working people in the UK

(just a couple more than there are House Husbands, as it turns out)

I dont see what all the fuss is about, Obama whilst appearing to be a breath of fresh air to the Whitehouse, is steadily showing me day by day, that he has broken a lot of his promises , his speeches lack conviction, and it is business as usual.
This story has run before in previous administrations, The US admin care not a jot about the UK, we only back their illegal invasions in other countries in the guise of democracy, the whole G20 thing is hot air and posturing, and probably the only true words that they have spoken is when they have given their names.
No doubt Balls or someone wanted this story to run

imagine that Prime Minister Balls, no thanks

yellowbelly 1959

thanks for the statistics facts.
I just had the latest in from Nofacts Insight
they now show 71 percent are made up and the other 29 are not, with 10 percent undecided