It's no breeze
- 29 Aug 06, 06:59 PM
I’ve been trying to get a wind turbine ever since I first had the title Ethical Man foisted on me by the Newsnight editor six months ago. Wind turbines are this year’s must have eco-accessory and I was keen to bolt my new credentials firmly to the roof of my terraced house.
I live in a borough that boasts about how green it is but getting the planning permission I need has not been easy. My application didn’t get any formal complaints from neighbours but Camden still wanted me to undertake an expensive acoustic survey.
Meanwhile I’ve had to watch as ethical fellow travellers David Cameron, the Tory leader, and Malcolm Wicks, the Energy Minister, have been granted permission for their turbines despite local opposition.
Then today my wait came to an end. On Friday Camden council decided that I could install my environmental virility symbol on my home, though my permit only allows for a temporary erection – six months only.
As an ethical man, I wish Messrs Cameron and Wicks all the best with their turbines, but I thank Camden that at last I am back in the race.
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why dont you investigate steorn its seems they boast claims of perpetual motion using "microturbines"
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I'm really pleased for you Justin.
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how does a 'temporary installation' work then? what's the point of that! surely once it's there, it's there. what are you supposed to do, buy it, use it then take it down in 6 months? have camden council perhaps failed to grasp the concept of wind turbines?
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Nice idea, but a bit tokenish. First, a high profile Labourite and Cameronian get theirs, then a nearly-as-high-profile ethical ±«Óãtv star gets one for six months. This in no way shows what y'r average semi-detached family would think, were some Green freak to stick a non-miniaturised whirlygig up on their roof. Satellite dishes are bad enough, but something that whirrs and could crush the kids playing in the neighbours' garden if it fell?
Britain, especially London, is a dense mesh (or mess) of estates, ribbon development, endless miles of urban sprawl. Bad enough as it is. If the provision of electricity, gas and water worked properly, the Green savings could be done at source. Instead, there are, for example, chronic leaks from the water pipes, and a lot of worry about fuel supply, on account of the Middle East and Russia. So the nuclear option is on the cards again.
Isn't this wind turbine thing a bit of a palliative to give the middle classes the feeling they are doing something worthwhile and ethically spiffing, while millions of gallons of water are wasted under their feet by the privatised water utilities?
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What we want to do with the Ethical Man project is to explore what one person can do to try and minimise their impact on the environment - without selling up and moving into a cave in the woods.
Lots of people are talking about domestic wind turbines as a way of reducing our dependence on fossil fuels. The only way to find out if they work is put one of the things up - isn't it?
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Instead of individual wind turbines on peoples roofs, which may or may not damage the roof, or fall into the street. Has anyone thought of putting one of the large commercial windmills, as used offshore or on hilltops, to feed however many local houses it could supply.
With regard to saving water, let the water companies lead by example. At the present time the example they are setting is how to waste it.
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please, don't do it!
I work in the renewables industry, and there is no doubt whatsoever that roof-mounted turbines are an expensive "con". We've done figures that show they will take between 160-550 years to pay back their cost (with a predicted life of `10 years, hardly a good idea).
In simple terms
a)there just isn't enough useable wind over a roof - it is low speed and turbulent (you need a VERY tall mast in an urban environment)
b)they WILL be noisy - the noise will transmit into the structure
c)it will undoubtedly cause structural damage
I fear that the public will see your turbine, and rush out to follow suit - and be bitterly disappointed because they don't work, and it will put them off renewables for life!
I have gone into the matter at some length on my own website - if you have any doubts, follow the links to the articles in the Observer, Hugh Pigott, and Paul Gipe!
If Newsnight really wanted to help, they should expose these chocolate teapots for the sham that they are!
(or should I contact "Esther")
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Certainly think twice before getting the micro turbine. Such environmental stalwarts as the Centre for Alternative Technology have expressed serious doubts.
The survey to undertake would be one measuring wind speeds and turbulence. This should give an indication of the likely performance.
Ah, but this is television, right? You have to get one, and film it, whether it is any good or not.
Saying "I didn't get one because I knew it would be no good" doesn't make good TV.
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Well done, Justin and I look forward very much to hearing how the unit works, both in terms of how much it generates, and also the noise level.
The Windsave unit, which I think is the one you are getting, has a display of how much power is being generated and so it should be quite easy to see what the turbine is contributing over time. I suggest you also monitor your electricity meter for a number of days before installation to get a baseline of your electricity consumption before it is installed, and then do the same afterwards for a few months.
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I got my electrickery from npower juice. In theory they generate they squash electrons into the national grid from their wind and tide turbines offshore at North Hoyle, and then I can take an equal number out at my end.
Seemed a lot less hassle than sticking a windmill on top of my house and no complaints from the neighbours.
Now I'm encouraging my kids to use as much electrickery as possible on the grounds that more npower juice = more windmills. So that's got to be a good thing, right?
So, ethical man, why don't we try to get as many people as possible to sign up for npower juice. Over the next two years we use ten times much electrickery as usual. Npower juice has to build lots of windmills and then we reduce our consumption to normal levels. Npower juice will be forced to sell their excess electrickery at low prices to the cave men still using fossil fuels. Simple.
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All grist to the windmill, eh?
That’ll teach me to go offline for a while! I was wondering if anyone had seen this: and lo, it seems it is the DM who have only just picked up. My bad.
This... is a tad telling: “please, don't do it! I work in the renewables industry, and there is no doubt whatsoever that roof-mounted turbines are an expensive "con".
To set against this, now that B&Q is selling them hand over fist for Xmas, and as the downsides (if they are real) seem to have been sanitised a bit, at least mainstream, I do hope we will get accurate ROI (eco-nomic and –logical) figures... from you?
This is what I’m doing with my reviews, with a 6 month update on my first (funds a bit tight for the full monty of every device and every brand) - - coming soon.
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For those interrested in Steorns claim I suggest you check out the forum, the latest post by crank has got people somewhat excited.
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from the Times:
from which
"Donnachadh McCarthy, who finally installed one on the roof of his south London terraced home in October 2005. His experience has not, however, been what he hoped for. “In the two months since I had my wind turbine refitted, it’s produced 1.3 kilowatt hours. That’s about enough to power a low-energy light bulb.â€
He also finds his house vibrates slightly when the turbine is in operation. It is a common problem. According to Nick Martin, an expert on green building techniques, the lateral thrust of turbines in high winds would be enough to topple a Victorian chimney stack"
-and from the Guardian:
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So, the first cat is out of the bag regarding the almost worthlessness of household wind turbines. Still, even a small amount of 'free' electricity is a good idea isn't it?
NO! What everyone seems to miss is the fact that such technologies will actually INCREASE your carbon footprint. Never mind the 150 years it might take to break even in cash terms, what about all the energy used to actually make the useless device inthe first place? Embedded energy is a crucial concept in any 'renewable' technology, yet it is one that seems to be poorly understood and rarely discussed.
Please try harder to report these important issues in a bit more depth. Thankyou.
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Your comment about "the only way to find out is to try" is exactly right.
Sigh. Now- please don't hate me- but I DID this, in a non-temporary, personally commited, expensive way.
I've put up 2 "personal" size wind turbines. "Disappointment" would be a mild word for my experiences. Both broke, quickly- both were far noisier than they claimed. The breaks were due to bad design, bad materials, more than anything; nothing in the parts of the systems that I built/designed has ever broken; only the stuff I bought.
I'm convinced at this point that small wind turbines CANNOT be made to work sensibly. They rotate too fast- one hailstone, one bird-strike- and it's out of balance. To some extent- if they DID work well, you'd already see a lot more of them; they've been around since the 1930's at least.
One bit of GOOD news- I really wish I'd used the money I spent on wind to buy more photovoltaic panels. Is it a perfect energy source? Of course not. Does it WORK? Oh, yeah, and for a very very long time.
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